Students at Eastern Carolina University took advantage of a rare opportunity on 20 January. The campus received an uncharacteristically large amount of snowfall and the University was forced to cancel Tuesday’s classes. Students elected to head outdoors and recapture their early childhood by engaging in an old fashioned snowball fight. Reports indicated that around 200-250 students joined in the festivities.
The students enjoyed their much needed respite, until the police came to “protect and to serve.” Unfortunately, the events that ensued were all too predictable. One 18 year old student, Steven Rashad Bass, allegedly threw a snowball at one of the officers that arrived to stop the students’ fun. Evidently, the officer’s bullet proof vest was not approved for defense against snowballs.
The video posted by students’ on youtube shows Bass begin to run from the officer but then change his mind and stop. The officer then tackled Bass, and handcuffed him. As Bass’s fellow students approached the officer who had Bass pinned on the ground, they were attacked with pepper spray by the officer.
Fortunately, there was some public outcry over the fiasco, though limited. Police overreacting to relatively harmless events is far too common. Have they forgotten that they work for us? It seems that the police mentality is more like that of a prison warden than that of a private body guard. They seem to believe that any level of force is justified under any circumstances. These officers need to remember that they are not wardens and the public are not prisoners.
Arrest:
Snowball Fight:
{ 29 comments }
It sounds like the student that was arrested was throwing ice and some students were throwing ice and snow at passing cars. I agree that police can sometimes go overboard but I definitely don’t think arresting this student was one of those cases. I didn’t see any pepper spray in the video so I am not sure how that came into play.
My freshman year of college, 2003, there was a similar group of students having fun in the same snowball-throwing manner. This was at night, however. Indeed, the police showed up but not in the manner displayed here. They were quite friendly in fact, allowing students to throw snowballs at their cars and build snowmen on top of them.
It seems the police action is justified, because despite the muckracking in this blog every other report points to the students violating property by opening peoples cars and throwing snow at the occupants inside.
This blog post is pretty pathetic and just uses an abstraction of the truth to fallaciously display an extreme version of events.
PS: Have you forgotten that the police work for the motorists also? Or are the police supposed to be the personal defense force of University intellectuals like you to do whatever you want?
“This blog post is pretty pathetic and just uses an abstraction of the truth to fallaciously display an extreme version of events.”
I concur. I don’t like how the Mises Institute blog has become increasingly agenda driven over the years (especially in recent months) – sort of like how the ‘progressives’ hijacked Amnesty International and turn it into a leftist/liberal mouthpiece.
Who are these writers anyway? Do they have better credentials than the armchair critics in academia whom they frequently lampoon?
I think Mr. Briggs is attempting to apply thr definition of a State to this incident. Since the State is a territorial monopolist of law and order and ultimate judge of conflict, including conflicts involving itself, the State can provoke conflict and decide the matters in its own favor. If the police use force which the suspect or witnesses believe is excessive, to whom can the suspect or witnesses turn for justice? To a judge who is paid by the same entity as the police. In whose favor will the judge rule? The judge will rule in the favor of the policemen. This creates moral hazard; police officers can use any amount of force they want, even beating and killing suspects for minor offenses, and most likely they will not be punished.
While it is possible that the police had a legitimate cause to break up the snowball fight, the issue of excessive force is still relevant. Indeed, one could ask relevant questions such as How would private police react in such a situation? If there were no monopoly on arbiration, would the police have used less force to control the situation?
So I must disagree with John Tate’s and Ella’s comments. Perhaps Mr. Armstrong should have been more explicit in his comments and connected his observations to the definition of a State. Such a connection to the definition of a State would have given this post more intellectual weight and made it appear less as a rant against the State monopoly on police and more an application of political theory to the real world.
Is this a Mises Institute or a Rothbard Institute?
The blog has decent economic commentary, but the political ideology is too rich for me. There’s hardly any debate, and it’s becoming increasingly agenda driven. To suggest that all Austrians/libertarians subscribe to the same agenda (which is NOT the case), or that there is only ONE agenda – this smacks of collectivism.
So the police taking action against someone who has assualted him is an over reaction? It takes a rather unusual view to depict the officer’s actions as anything but appropriate.
As for serving the people, someone who is ready and has assaulted an officer will not hesitate to attack a civilian.
There is nothing commendable about being so impartial that between truth and falsehood that we can split the difference and call it objectivity.
Categorically speaking the policeman is a criminal even before any of the incidents start. He is a criminal because he makes his living from stolen property and enforces the theft with his guns subtly or openly.
But if you don’t see this and take policeman as a innocent public servant and analyze this situation only, you may think complaining about the conduct is exaggeration.
Ideology is everything. Even the economic commentary on this blog has an agenda of freedom. Perhaps some individuals can write about economic freedom in a dispassionate way. I don’t know many.
I also find the collectivism comment odd. I understand collectivism as the belief that the people are united by the State and the State has the right to use coercion to compel individuals to bend to the general will. If libertarians are united in a belief of individual liberty, is this collectivism?
“Categorically speaking the policeman is a criminal even before any of the incidents start. He is a criminal because he makes his living from stolen property and enforces the theft with his guns subtly or openly.
But if you don’t see this and take policeman as a innocent public servant and analyze this situation only, you may think complaining about the conduct is exaggeration.”
It’s this sort of rubbish which prevents libertarian/Austrian views to be taken seriously by the mainstream.
“Ideology is everything. Even the economic commentary on this blog has an agenda of freedom. Perhaps some individuals can write about economic freedom in a dispassionate way. I don’t know many.”
It is hard to separate economics and politics – that’s perhaps why economics was known as ‘political economy’ back then.
But there are economic laws – which are immutable truths; and then there are opinions e.g. as to what kind of political organization is desirable (and IP belongs to this category too i.m.o.). Mises and Hayek were statists; Rothbard an anarchist – so a broad spectrum of opinions still exist, even if we are to retain the main thrust of “minimal government and individual freedom”. When it comes to such issues, I think it is only intellectually honest to give a fair hearing to all points of view. Debate should be encouraged, rather than the dogmatic promotion of one view over another. Grey should not be reduced to either black or white.
This is primarily a Mises ECONOMICS Blog. While – as I’ve said – it is hard to separate economics from political views, maybe it’s better to lump articles such as this one under a Rothbard Libertarian Blog, or have them listed on Lew Rockwell’s Blog (which I visit too).
“I also find the collectivism comment odd. I understand collectivism as the belief that the people are united by the State and the State has the right to use coercion to compel individuals to bend to the general will. If libertarians are united in a belief of individual liberty, is this collectivism?”
Collectivism does not necessarily have to do with the state – take racism, terrorism, student collectivism on the school grounds…
What collectivism really is – is that it assumes ALL individuals who belong to a certain group are ALL the same. Collectivism stamps out individual identity – group mentality kicks in, eventually the individual is subjugated to some ‘agenda’ (however right and noble that agenda may be), those who don’t toe it are harrassed as ‘fools’ and ‘incompetent idiots’ (which is what is happening on this blog now).
So you can be supporting the right cause, be advocating the truth – but done in the spirit of collectivism. This can only be destructive.
People tout freedom all the time, and assert individualism – but I’ve always been surprised at the homogeneity of our society. It’s slightly better here on this blog – I hope it stays that way.
“It’s this sort of rubbish which prevents libertarian/Austrian views to be taken seriously by the mainstream.”
Why do you suppose “being taken seriously by the mainstream” would be a higher goal than stating the facts?
My god! I can’t believe some of the comments on this blog. How much force and violence by police are you Americans used to? I live in the Netherlands and when a cop did this to a student the country would be up in arms!
Even if a student would have hit him with some ice, which seems very far fetched to me, he could have been given the benefit of doubt. This is ridiculous! Getting arrested for being in a snowfight? Come on!
The cops were putting themselves in harms way! Why would they interfere at all?
O yes, the usual mantra about “safety”. If you can’t have a frigging snowball fight anymore without the police arresting people things have gone way over the edge and you are living in a fascist police state.
Was the cop injured? Did he have any wounds?
I grew up in the 70s. We had very light guns, knives and got into snowball fights with ice balls flying around. But I can’t remember when anybody ever felt the need to do something as ridiculous as calling the police. He would have been the laughing stock of the neighborhood. And the police would have ignored him and told him they had serious work to do.
The quest for totalitarian safety will lead to a totalitarian state. Big frigging surprise!
Clearly, my blog post was biased against the police action. That is why the post contains two youtube videos and a local news agency’s report on the incident. I believe that these links allow the reader to see the complete story and decide for him/herself.
If the snowball throwing assailants were “attacking” other willing parties, then so be it. This of course, is their choice. If other parties, “innocent bystanders” chose not to partake in the event and were “engaged”, then the police force is justified. Remember, your freedom ends at my nose. This might explain the police action.
C.Evans,
“This creates moral hazard; police officers can use any amount of force they want, even beating and killing suspects for minor offenses, and most likely they will not be punished.”
And after that, the police start complaining that the real bad guys shoot AK-47′s at them, LOL !
Well, this escalation of violence is probably the police’s fault and the drug prohibition’s fault.
When the real bad guys see what the police are doing to defenseless innocent teenages, they feel they need to arm themselves with military equipment.
Neo-Cicero,
“I live in the Netherlands and when a cop did this to a student the country would be up in arms!”
What arms ? You live in a country of homo-pussies affraid of plastic gun replicas. You have no arms in your hoplophobic country. And you can’t even carry knives in public.
Up in bare naked arms perhaps ? Spewing armpit odor around ?
That will surely scare the police, LOL !
Neo-Cicero,
“How much force and violence by police are you Americans used to?”
Here, in the land of the free and the home of the brave, the SWAT teams ( a kind of nazi ss-military police ) routinely bust open doors of honest citizens, kill their dogs, beat up their wives and confiscate money, cash, belongings and the whole real estate when they even suspect of “criminal” drug activities etc.
So yeah, people are kind of used to be beaten up, searched, robbed and shot by the police. It’s the American way of life.
Police officers here think we are all human pieces of garbage, no make that human feces of garbage.
Based on my casual observation…
College students are often not respecters of private property, or of rights to your own person. I remember “showering” being all the rage in my freshman year of college. Basically, some of the guys on my hall of the dorm would grab another and forcibly put him into the shower and turn the water on. Harmless? Pretty much, yes. But, it certainly does not demonstrate respect for the person’s right to their own body.
So, I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if the college students were pulling in innocent bystanders, and thereby justifying the use of force against themselves.
Personally, I find it odd that it was the police rather than campus security that took charge here… at least at my undergrad institution, campus security handled almost everything… To me that suggests that the students were probably pulling in quite a few innocent bystanders…
Lucas,
Those college students are lucky they didn’t pull in someone who was packing heat. LOL !
It would’ve certainly thawed their snowball “fun”, LOL !
Maybe that police officer, handcuffing a student, was not so bad after all.
Keep in mind that the student was NOT arrested for hitting bystanders, pouring snow in cars, or any of the other reasons mentioned in the comments. He was arrested for throwing a snowball at an officer. The other students were pepper sprayed for getting too close during the arrest. If he truly was vandalizing property or injuring unwilling participants, I too would want him arrested. The charge was assault on law enforcement not destruction of property or assault on civilian.
remember in the old movies when there was a “pie fight”? There would always be a police officer trying to stop the pie throwing. As he’d wave his arms and commence to blowing his whistle, he would get hit with a pie. Was it really that big of a deal to get hit with a snowball during a snowball fight? really? It seems like their was a little bit of pride involved, too. A shame, it looked like the kids were having some fun.
Pretty lame action taken by the police, IMHO, unless there was damage to property. Hey, this could also lead into the topic of “Everyone in America MUST attend College”, and the low standards of students as a result. Now I’m not saying you must be completely straight and narrow your entire 8-10 year voyage to an undergraduate degree HA!), but it’s food for thought. Of course I believe, from my own empirical observations, police are getting way too over zealous in their actions towards the public. The para-military garbage stuff is getting way out of hand as well. The traffic ticketing (revenue generating) is even drawing the attention of such national rags as Car & Driver, this month. I believe Benard wrote that, I could be wrong though.
I don’t see Briggs’ assessment as being too rich. He is merely pointing out abuses of the “State” in all its machinations, (it may be that the kid was in the wrong, but thats not the complete that this article is trying to convey.) We have put way too much faith in the “State”. This site allows for an alternate viewpoint that is in contrary to the mob dribble. We have done it with the police as well as the military. Think about it….I forget Ron Paul’s message about carrying the veil of good….I can’t remember.
JD
At least the folks on this site are thinking individuals, unlike 99% of the so-called academia out there…
On a lighter note & speaking of movies of inept police officer, with rebel-rousing teens….
“The Hollywood Knights”
Gailard Sartain & Sandy Helberg’s off-the-cuff dialogue warrants an upgrade from a B rating.
A bit crude at times, but definitely chalked full of laughs, & even though a bit movie cliche, it had that Free-Spirit innocence, that anyone can appreciate.
“There are no words to Lawrence of Arabia, No words!”
Good Stuff!
Briggs,
“He was arrested for throwing a snowball at an officer.”
As much as I HATE cops, I think that showing disrespect to police officers warrants a well deserved arrest.
And if I was that kid’s father, I would have let him rot in the prison cell a few days before I pick him up.
After all, officers put their lives in first like to protect us from violent criminals, those guys risk their lives everyday for our well being, they deserve respect and recognition.
Would you throw an ice packed snowball at one of our troops in uniform ? Same thing for police officers.
I do think that a minimum of respect is needed.
In fact, as an innocent bystander, I think they should get arrested if they threw ME a snowball without my consent.
So it goes double for a police officer. It shows contempt for the law and it’s despicable behavior.
I would never show such disrespect to a police officer, because I would never have the balls to do the job those guys do.
In fact, I would never throw a snowball against anyone without first their consent.
The police officer was well within his rights to arrest the teenager, it was an assault against the police officer.
JD,
“Of course I believe, from my own empirical observations, police are getting way too over zealous in their actions towards the public.”
Perhaps because the public are getting way too hostile in their actions towards the police ?
Throwing heavy objects at police officers warrants a well deserved arrest and should also mandate a few days in jail in my opinion.
If you don’t like the job the police does, you can go to the police station and file a complaint like a behaved gentlemen.
Throwing a heavy object at a police officer is not the proper way to complain and is not civilized behavior.
Briggs,
“He was arrested for throwing a snowball at an officer. The other students were pepper sprayed for getting too close during the arrest.”
Those are the procedures, Briggs. I am 100% on the cop’s side for this one.
Throwing a snowball at the police officer is AN ASSAULT !
And getting too close to the police officer while he arrests someone is GANGING UP ON HIM.
The police officer could have easily thought that he was being gang up on because of the arrest.
Pepper spraying those brats was the right thing to do.
Where has respect for authority, civics, ethics and sense of duty gone to in our country ?
It’s VERY VERY stupid to invade a cop’s working space, especially as a group during an arrest.
If you don’t agree with the arrest, you can file a group complain against the cop. You can film the cop from a distance, you can testify against him after wards.
Just DON’T invade his work space or you run the well deserved risk of being pepper sprayed, tasered or even GUNNED DOWN, depending on the circumstances.
Invading a police officer’s working space is considered a THREAT in cop procedures.
Stupid animal teenagers should be taught civics manners in school.
I Hate Taxes:
“Where has respect for authority, civics, ethics and sense of duty gone to in our country ?”
I would say a continued reliance on the State, (largely for a century), has helped usher in the behavior in the people of our nation. You know Loose Money, Welfare, Public Schools, etc…..Issues that are debated on this site day in day out.
I can agree with you to an extent, but on the flip side, when did everyone come to the conclusion that the police must be involved in every little dispute? Was there truly a break-down in order at the university that warranted police involvement?
And as a side note, knowing what kind of people dawn themselves in the uniform aren’t exactly shining examples of Ethical Authority. Especially with the Drakokian Drug Laws, that IMO exacerbate the Drug Culture, and make it much more dangerous than it is.
Of course, I’m getting quiet a bit off topic, and you may very well be right about the kid. It’s just with all the other stuff, that isn’t righteous by law enforcement makes you a bit more suspect of their tactics sometimes.
I Hate Taxes,
Quote:
“Throwing a snowball at the police officer is AN ASSAULT !”
Actually, battery. But cops like to overcharge cases with the hope that defendants will plea bargain. In this case they’d probably charge for all sorts of lunacy (resisting arrest, assault and battery, striking an officer, participating in a riot, ect…)
But seriously though… This blog is hearsay. The video of the arrest is the only credible and material evidence as to what occurred. What can we really say about what happened? A kid got tackled by a police officer… It was probably more force than needed, but that’s a subjective decision meant to be made by a jury of peers.
Personally, I’d rather side with the college kid (unless, of course, more evidence was introduced that proves he committed a crime beyond a reasonable doubt). If the police officer is a fault, nothing happens… He still has a comfy union job. The kid, however, has a lot more to lose.
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