HIPPITY HIP HOP HOOP
”……..goes the car advertisements ‘yesss come on down, we are giving them away!!! Break that advertisement down into facts, and you will find its 99% bull. You don’t realize it. these people want your money, but they want to PICK & CHOOSE their customers. I don’t think so!!

Many underhanded tricks take place in dealerships, more than I can discuss here. The most laughable:

“all applications will be accepted”
Well, yes, they will take them. That is what that means THAT’S ALL! But getting APPROVED is another thing. If you’re going to give me a hard time, I’m outta here. I am a busy man. I don’t have time for clowning around while you act as if the truck you’re selling is the holy grail.

1999 S10 for $5995 stock #12345
And lo and behold, that S-10 in nowhere to be found! But they DO happen have another one, at a much higher price.

Dealers want to give you an anal exam for a loan, If they find one thing wrong, you’re done. They don’t allow you one blemish, but they can be as crooked as they wish,

This is an article of WHY the big three is in trouble. You won’t find this discussed in the media, who depend on auto advertizing for revenue.

The first thing you must do is avoid car dealers. The whole scamming system! by now you think I am crazy. here is how I do it.

I will Buy from an individual. It’s so simple

“Mr. Jones, what do you want for that truck”?

I would like $1200

“Okay, here you go”.

“Thank you here is the title”

Done deal. Try that at a dealer and see what happens!

Bad Credit…… I had no choice on that one. Sure…..it made life more difficult at first, but I learned ways around it… buzzwords like W.A.C, ir “if you qualify” Instantly tell me that I do not want to pursue, nor have anything to do with these exclusionary people. These people tell me that due to some invisible number that I must pay more money for the same goods and services

So if I (according to the dealer) am not as likely to pay back the money, I should be charged MORE money for the same thing, putting it even farther out of my reach? I refuse to play that game. How about they don’t get the sale at all? At least from me,

HURRUMPH!!! Thinks the car salesman to himself. “This guy doesn’t matter, because his credit stinks! He won’t let me charge him more, just because I can. He is a non-conformist. He just needs to go away LEAVE THE LOT..

OK I will……taking my money with me. I have the power, not you.

l multiply one refusal by millions and it ends up affecting the whole apparatus, right up to the factory who cries every year because sales are down! wonder why?!!!!

New Auto dealers will not talk to you about a new auto loan if your credit is below 730. That leaves out 46% of the public! Is it any wonder that GM is in bed with the government? This company is in total denial. They have forgotten that it is the common working class that makes a company. The ‘tier 1” customer they seek is rare, and will become even rarer as this economy goes south, and certainly not enough to keep a big company alive.

Do you know any company who would not be harmed by refusing 46% of its customer base?

So people like us don’t matter to you big three? There ARE a lot of us and we have spoken with our pocketbooks. Now you come running to the Feds with your hand out! SERVES YOU RIGHT. Going bankrupt, crying because you can’t sell enough of your products? YOU DID THIS TO YOURSELF! Where did you think these imaginary people with perfect credit were going to come from??? The people in the suburbs were not enough to keep you afloat? you have catered to them for fourty years, forgetting the common man who made you successful to start with. You made up rules that locked the working class of people out of the possibility of buying a new vehicle.

You would think that the car companies would have seen the writing on the wall, but they are in total denial. Instead of opening up the market, on a workable basis they have clamped down credit even further…..going bankrupt, closing dealers…I saw the local dealers on local TV, just crying about it. AWWWWW……..poor dealers! Where was the publicity when poor people like us could not buy something decent to drive from you??? How does it feel to be forced to live like we do? It has taken years, but now reality is here!

I am self employed, and can easily afford a $500 a month payment…But I dont look good on “paper” So me, being somewhat resourseful (and a bit defiant), buy a 1984 Ford pickup with a bad transmission from Craigslist for $300. I also buy a parts truck for $50, and install its transmission in the 84. For a total of $350, Less than one payment, I have a truck that will last for another 5 or 6 years.*I then keep the money I would have given the dealer.

Who really lost money in this situation, me or the dealer, the factory and the economy?? One new truck not sold. One truck is of no affect to the bottom line… But multiply that by all refusals, and a quick run of the numbers result in millions of units not sold.

Now for you appearance wonks, who would look down on my truck because it’s old and out of style, I say to you……I am wealthier than you. I do not have payments or debt. If I do not make another dime, no one will come get it. you have the appearance of being wealthier because you are in debt up to your eyeballs…….ummmmm …….excuse me, just exactly What was you gloating about again???????? your new escalade and this old ford are made out of steel, plastic, paint and rubber. break both down to its basic elements, and they are exactly the same… I drive this old truck in your presence as a testament to your ignorance!

Of course, the powers that be do not like Americans who think out of the box in this manner. One trick they used is requiring auto insurance mandatory, then using credit scoring to determine the rates. Over the years, they have tried several times to get old cars off the road. If you are not mechanically inclined, old cars are not for you. Most repair shop does not like to work on them, even though they are simpler to maintain. I wonder why that is so? Is it just another trick to discourage old car use, and compel you to play the game??

Henry Ford knew that the model T could only be successful by placing it in the hands of the common people who needed it. The public responded. To say the Model T Ford was a success is an understatement. Mr. Ford’s liberal sales attitude resulted in over 29 million units being built. With that much profit, any default or loss was easily absorbed

The only Car maker I have any respect at all for is FORD. At least FORD was smart enough to not let the government get involved in their operations…

I will be the first to admit that I have an axe to grind with car makers and especially the dealers. More than once I have laid under an old car or truck in the rain, mud, and filth attempting to keep something on the road to put food on my table. As I sometimes risk getting pneumonia just because some exclusionary dealer wants to pick and choose their customers .

I will always remember that pasty-faced sneering salesman at Morlan Dodge in Sikeston Missouri who tried to stand in my way! I now have a heated garage, and have stayed well-versed in electronics, so that doesn’t stop me either. I always have something to drive, bought for pennies on the dollar, and more cars and trucks waiting in reserve.

So as society pays an unreasonable price for a new vehicle, driving it around until the sticker in the window yellows, that’s fine with me. Once the new wears off if it, and the ashtray is full, and the wildcat dealers play with it, selling it used for 21% interest rate, and it’s worn out, then I will restore it, and enjoy it saving a bundle of money in the process that I didn’t have to give to the dealer or maker whom evidently, doesn’t want my business anyway.

Big three, you have done this to yourself. You have forgotten the people whom have made you big, the common worker. As you watch your sales evaporate, and your inventory grow, Just remember. You could have sold them IF you had the common sense to open up the market a bit with a reasonable apparatus of buying your product within reach of all. The antics of your dealers are your worst enemy. You set them up to sell your product and the dealers try hard to find reasons not to.

We, the common people have spoken, with our wallets and now, you’re feeling it. I guess we DO matter after all!

But as for me, the damage has been done because you have forgotten the common man. Until the day I die, I will never see you get one thin dime of my money directly if I can help it.

Andrew Taylor Sarcoxie MO
tempola@aol.com

General Motors sold 9.37 million vehicles worldwide in 2007 and lost $38.7 billion.

The 38 B number is related to an accounting change. No company, ever, anywhere, has lost that much actual money. They could have given away every vehicle they built and not lost that much. Just more stupidity from union bashers who don’t know what they’re talking about.

Until the retirees come off the Big Three charity rolls, it will never be a level playing field. Besides, I bet it won’t cost $17B to feed all those folks for life.

They’ve had plenty of chances. The Big 3 have been hemorrhaging money for a few years now. I know that here in Canada we’ve given GM (and I’m pretty sure the others) Government money a few times, and they keep coming back. This is not a loan. It will never be paid back, no matter how successful these companies are.

While I agree that 2 or 3 of these companies going bankrupt is probably not going to make anybody’s life better, I’d argue that giving them this money is going to make everybody’s life a little bit worse, except the handful of people that really benefit from this – the C level executives, union leaders and politicians that can take credit for “saving the economy”. The rest of us are taking it hard.

I’m still guessing the UAW workers are reimbursed significantly better than their Toyota counterparts, but no one seems to be able to settle on just how much. Also, what specifically are the Big 3 paying their retired workers that wasn’t put in when the workers worked there in the first place? One day I think I have an opinion on this subject, and the next I do some reading and can’t make up my mind. Somedays I wish I was just happy being ignorant.

Greg, when the airlines went bankrupt the economy wasn’t in nearly as bad shape as it was now. In better times, I could see the economy recovering in stride from the bankruptcy filings of one or even 2 of the Big 3. They would be able to restructure, rebuild and probably bring back a lot of their jobs. But with the state the economy is in, I’m not so certain. I’d like to think bankruptcy would solve all the problems but my gut says it would be a catastrophe right now.

Still, the question isn’t whether we should help the auto industry. If we knew that giving them a loan now would keep them afloat and not go to waste, it wouldn’t matter what their employees make, that’s their prerogative. The question is, can they help themselves? Will the UAW and the management really be able to patch up all their problems in a few months? Years and years of being used to living off the fat of the land, only to run out of fat all at once at the worst possible time? That’s where the behavior of the execs comes into play. Their behavior is equally comparable to that of the UAW. They’re both behaving as if no concessions should have to be made on their side, no drastic changes necessary. Well times are going to get rough for them. Really though, I say give them the loan, if they do go under, oops our bad. I figure they deserve at least one chance in the clutch.

That $72/hr figure is not correct. It is much lower, including benefits.

If they really wanted to solve the problem, and “save” these companies, why not introduce legislation to reduce wages to a level that allows these companies to be profitable.

This plan has the benefit of being both incredibly overbearing and far beyond the real reach of government, and being a much cheaper solution to this made up issue. It’s too bad no politician has the cojones to suggest this publicly – it would illustrate nicely how ridiculous and over the top Governments – in Canada as well as the US – have gone with trying to “solve” all these “problems”.

Great article. There is something structurally wrong with the North American car manufacturers if they can’t compete. There needs to be restructuring and I don’t think a bailout will help that.

Warren
Stockjunction.com
http://www.stockjunction.com/index.php?option=com_myblog&show=Lost-Jobs-Nortel-Bail-out-Keegan-.html&Itemid=4

Correction….The first part of this sentence should read: “Currently, UAW workers at Ford, GM and Chrysler earn an average of $78 (or thereabouts) per hour, plus benefits.”

Wrong. Japan has gov’t paid health care for the unemployed and self-employed. Toyota, Nissan, et. al. pay for their insurance just like GM and Ford do, It’s highly regulated in terms of costs, has fewer doctors per patient, and is headed for a crash because of rapid decline in population. Why doesn’t Michigan offer to pay for their health care? How is their health care our problem?

If given a choice between an auto industry bailout and socialized medicine, I choose the bailout. It will be cheaper. Of course we’ll probably end up with both and neither will work.

I’m not sure who the “us” is you’re describing as being more competitive. Maybe you could explain how conviscating billions of dollars from tax payers and giving it to a private industry with a bad business model will result in better competitiveness? As for the universal medical coverage, same question?

If we’re comparing, let’s compare the fact that the highest paid CEO of a japanese auto company does not earn over 1 million dollars a year. Whereas for example GM’s ceo started way over that and has increased his pay 400% just in the last 4 years and is around 6 million.
I doubt the american workers have increased even 100% in their pay over that time.

While posting record losses, the culture of attacking those who produce while doubling the pay of management is insane.

The hourly pay is clearly comparable at us and japanese factories.
It’s the benefits costs that kill.

Why not focus on the fact that the healthcare system in the US is crippling most businesses and needs to be universal like our competition?
That would do more to make us competitive than all this nonsense about cutting the workers.

The workers spend money. Lots of it. The last eight years have moved an immense amount of money into the hands of the top 1% of this country and that is the root of our retail nightmare currently. Rather than cutting it, we need to follow Henry Ford and pay people enough to buy things and get the economy moving.

I found these readily though, which support the numbers:

http://www.examiner.com/x-243-Progressive-Politics-Examiner~y2008m12d9-Big-Three-labor-costs-compared-to-average-manufacturing

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/wm2162.cfm

Unsustainable is unsustainable. I could understand a bailout if government was trying to correct an injustice it did the industry by entering into bad trade agreements (which it has) and was subsequently going to operate in free-market mode, but it is clear the industry needs to hit the reset button!

And if bankruptcy is allowed, there will likely be a free-for-all as the good parts of these companies and the skilled labor look to make the best of things. Plenty of good new car companies could arise. I am sure there are plenty of people who would love to have a $20+/hr job right now!

-r