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	<title>Comments on: $30 Billion Taxfunded Innovation Contracts: The &#8220;Progressive-Libertarian&#8221; Solution</title>
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	<link>http://archive.mises.org/9005/30-billion-taxfunded-innovation-contracts-the-progressive-libertarian-solution/</link>
	<description>Proceeding Ever More Boldly Against Evil</description>
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		<title>By: Chu-hua Zhu</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/9005/30-billion-taxfunded-innovation-contracts-the-progressive-libertarian-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-745963</link>
		<dc:creator>Chu-hua Zhu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Dec 2010 23:13:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/009005.asp#comment-745963</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Josh, this is two years late, but the Anti-Cato stuff is because Cato falsely presents itself as libertarian. It is, in fact, efficiency expertise for the State and a subversion of real libertarianism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh, this is two years late, but the Anti-Cato stuff is because Cato falsely presents itself as libertarian. It is, in fact, efficiency expertise for the State and a subversion of real libertarianism.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry N. Martin</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/9005/30-billion-taxfunded-innovation-contracts-the-progressive-libertarian-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-477130</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry N. Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 02:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/009005.asp#comment-477130</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s the libertarians who &lt;i&gt;are&lt;/i&gt; the progressives, nowadays.  The &quot;progressives&quot; stopped being progressive a long time ago. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s the libertarians who <i>are</i> the progressives, nowadays.  The &#8220;progressives&#8221; stopped being progressive a long time ago. </p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/9005/30-billion-taxfunded-innovation-contracts-the-progressive-libertarian-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-477089</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 20:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/009005.asp#comment-477089</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What is up with all the anti-Cato articles that have been circulating recently? This is like the fourth one I&#039;ve seen. Is it really worth it to try to discredit an otherwise libertarian mouthpiece just because one or two rogue authors gets something wrong?

For whatever reason, I think someone&#039;s got something against Cato, but why?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is up with all the anti-Cato articles that have been circulating recently? This is like the fourth one I&#8217;ve seen. Is it really worth it to try to discredit an otherwise libertarian mouthpiece just because one or two rogue authors gets something wrong?</p>
<p>For whatever reason, I think someone&#8217;s got something against Cato, but why?</p>
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		<title>By: wuzacon</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/9005/30-billion-taxfunded-innovation-contracts-the-progressive-libertarian-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-477014</link>
		<dc:creator>wuzacon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:02:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/009005.asp#comment-477014</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A.E. 

&quot;Why should a person working out of their garage trust anyone with their ideas if there is no protection for intangible property? How can they feel comfortable going to engineers, designers, marketers, or anyone else that could help them develop their dreams, but is a likely candidate for theft.&quot;

The transaction you just identified is almost never protected by intellectual property. Intellectual property does not kick in until after the idea has been developed. There is no reasonable reason to suspect that your lawyer, engineer, marketer or other contractual partner will run off with the innovators innovation because they should be contractually bound not to compete with the innovation prior to disclosing the innovation to these third-parties. Contract law, then, is the basis for ensuring that ideas are not stolen in this context.

Whether intellectual property in-fact provides a real benefit to the economy is a question open for debate. China appears to be doing just fine without it. Without intellectual property, companies identify ways to market their products so that they cannot be easily copied. 

The casualty of a system without intellectual property would be the lack of transparency in communicating new ideas for others to use and build off of in the future. On the flip side, innovators would be free to come up with the idea regardless of who figured it out first.

Unfortunately, IP discussions seems to suffer from a overemphasis and over-reliance on the Lockean Proviso, which states that property is legitimate so long as there is as much and as good available. As I believe the Austrians have shown, this principle makes no sense. Property is required when there is scarcity. When the object is freely available to all (air) property serves no purpose. So what should we make of IP if the Lockean Proviso is abolished.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A.E. </p>
<p>&#8220;Why should a person working out of their garage trust anyone with their ideas if there is no protection for intangible property? How can they feel comfortable going to engineers, designers, marketers, or anyone else that could help them develop their dreams, but is a likely candidate for theft.&#8221;</p>
<p>The transaction you just identified is almost never protected by intellectual property. Intellectual property does not kick in until after the idea has been developed. There is no reasonable reason to suspect that your lawyer, engineer, marketer or other contractual partner will run off with the innovators innovation because they should be contractually bound not to compete with the innovation prior to disclosing the innovation to these third-parties. Contract law, then, is the basis for ensuring that ideas are not stolen in this context.</p>
<p>Whether intellectual property in-fact provides a real benefit to the economy is a question open for debate. China appears to be doing just fine without it. Without intellectual property, companies identify ways to market their products so that they cannot be easily copied. </p>
<p>The casualty of a system without intellectual property would be the lack of transparency in communicating new ideas for others to use and build off of in the future. On the flip side, innovators would be free to come up with the idea regardless of who figured it out first.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, IP discussions seems to suffer from a overemphasis and over-reliance on the Lockean Proviso, which states that property is legitimate so long as there is as much and as good available. As I believe the Austrians have shown, this principle makes no sense. Property is required when there is scarcity. When the object is freely available to all (air) property serves no purpose. So what should we make of IP if the Lockean Proviso is abolished.</p>
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		<title>By: A.E. Siman</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/9005/30-billion-taxfunded-innovation-contracts-the-progressive-libertarian-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-476993</link>
		<dc:creator>A.E. Siman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:21:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/009005.asp#comment-476993</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Caveman, we are an &quot;idea economy&quot;.   Take away the property rights to those ideas, and you not only destroy the incentive for small and independent inventors to venture out with their ideas, but you make it more likely that larger companies will be secretive about their work.   

Why should a person working out of their garage trust anyone with their ideas if there is no protection for intangible property?  How can they feel comfortable going to engineers, designers, marketers, or anyone else that could help them develop their dreams, but is a likely candidate for theft. 

If the law doesnt consider it property, then there can be no theft, and you have set up a free-for-all where anything goes.   You have also destroyed the possibility for unconventional and out-of-the-box thinking by those inventors outside of the mainstream.    In other words, you have destroyed the idea economy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Caveman, we are an &#8220;idea economy&#8221;.   Take away the property rights to those ideas, and you not only destroy the incentive for small and independent inventors to venture out with their ideas, but you make it more likely that larger companies will be secretive about their work.   </p>
<p>Why should a person working out of their garage trust anyone with their ideas if there is no protection for intangible property?  How can they feel comfortable going to engineers, designers, marketers, or anyone else that could help them develop their dreams, but is a likely candidate for theft. </p>
<p>If the law doesnt consider it property, then there can be no theft, and you have set up a free-for-all where anything goes.   You have also destroyed the possibility for unconventional and out-of-the-box thinking by those inventors outside of the mainstream.    In other words, you have destroyed the idea economy.</p>
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		<title>By: Caveman</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/9005/30-billion-taxfunded-innovation-contracts-the-progressive-libertarian-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-476959</link>
		<dc:creator>Caveman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 08:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/009005.asp#comment-476959</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A.E., IP is an issue on which libertarians are divided. The Cato and Ayn Rand institutes are generally pro-IP; Mises Institute seems to oppose IP. Opponents of IP tend to reject the idea of intangible property.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A.E., IP is an issue on which libertarians are divided. The Cato and Ayn Rand institutes are generally pro-IP; Mises Institute seems to oppose IP. Opponents of IP tend to reject the idea of intangible property.</p>
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		<title>By: A.E. Siman</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/9005/30-billion-taxfunded-innovation-contracts-the-progressive-libertarian-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-476867</link>
		<dc:creator>A.E. Siman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 04:43:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/009005.asp#comment-476867</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We Libertarians are the first to point out how Socialists formulate governmental policy on pie-in-the-sky ideals that are unrealistic and detached from the realities of human behavior.    There is a reason for patent and copyright protection, namely the &quot;protectionâ€ it gives an individual/company while their idea has a chance to get to market.   Taking away this protection under the assumption that all is fair and no one will take advantage of others is a similar miscalculation of the human condition.

The free market ideal is not a proposal for a &quot;free-for-all law of the jungleâ€ scenario.   It is a disciplined ideology that recognizes that your rights begin and end where they criss-cross the rights of others.  Without intellectual property rights, then there is no way of making illegal for another individual or company from literally stealing your intangible property.   While the current patent and copyright system doesn&#039;t prevent theft, it does build the legal basis for those property rights.  They are the &quot;deedâ€ to your intangible property.   

Since when do Libertarians believe that there should be no property rights? Intellectual or otherwise?   A &quot;self-governmentâ€ ideology is nothing without property rights, even if that property isn&#039;t tangible.   Wasn&#039;t the lack of property rights the ideology of the Socialists?
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We Libertarians are the first to point out how Socialists formulate governmental policy on pie-in-the-sky ideals that are unrealistic and detached from the realities of human behavior.    There is a reason for patent and copyright protection, namely the &#8220;protectionâ€ it gives an individual/company while their idea has a chance to get to market.   Taking away this protection under the assumption that all is fair and no one will take advantage of others is a similar miscalculation of the human condition.</p>
<p>The free market ideal is not a proposal for a &#8220;free-for-all law of the jungleâ€ scenario.   It is a disciplined ideology that recognizes that your rights begin and end where they criss-cross the rights of others.  Without intellectual property rights, then there is no way of making illegal for another individual or company from literally stealing your intangible property.   While the current patent and copyright system doesn&#8217;t prevent theft, it does build the legal basis for those property rights.  They are the &#8220;deedâ€ to your intangible property.   </p>
<p>Since when do Libertarians believe that there should be no property rights? Intellectual or otherwise?   A &#8220;self-governmentâ€ ideology is nothing without property rights, even if that property isn&#8217;t tangible.   Wasn&#8217;t the lack of property rights the ideology of the Socialists?</p>
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		<title>By: J Cortez</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/9005/30-billion-taxfunded-innovation-contracts-the-progressive-libertarian-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-476838</link>
		<dc:creator>J Cortez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 02:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/009005.asp#comment-476838</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;&quot;progressive-libertarian alliance&quot;...oxymoron?&lt;/i&gt;

&quot;Progressive-libertarian alliance&quot; ???  I don&#039;t even know what that means. I can&#039;t see how there can be any alliance on something like this. I can&#039;t call anyone that supports stuff like this a libertarian.

It is a mild joke to me how these people just throw out gigantic numbers and then don&#039;t understand how out of control spending has gotten. $30 billion? That is 600,000 times the median household income in the United State.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;progressive-libertarian alliance&#8221;&#8230;oxymoron?</i></p>
<p>&#8220;Progressive-libertarian alliance&#8221; ???  I don&#8217;t even know what that means. I can&#8217;t see how there can be any alliance on something like this. I can&#8217;t call anyone that supports stuff like this a libertarian.</p>
<p>It is a mild joke to me how these people just throw out gigantic numbers and then don&#8217;t understand how out of control spending has gotten. $30 billion? That is 600,000 times the median household income in the United State.</p>
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		<title>By: newson</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/9005/30-billion-taxfunded-innovation-contracts-the-progressive-libertarian-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-476701</link>
		<dc:creator>newson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 11:17:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/009005.asp#comment-476701</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;progressive-libertarian alliance&quot;...oxymoron?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;progressive-libertarian alliance&#8221;&#8230;oxymoron?</p>
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		<title>By: Erick Vasconcelos</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/9005/30-billion-taxfunded-innovation-contracts-the-progressive-libertarian-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-476685</link>
		<dc:creator>Erick Vasconcelos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 07:46:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/009005.asp#comment-476685</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t understand the scare quotes around Dean Baker&#039;s name. It&#039;s the guy&#039;s name, for Christ&#039;s sake.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t understand the scare quotes around Dean Baker&#8217;s name. It&#8217;s the guy&#8217;s name, for Christ&#8217;s sake.</p>
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