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Source link: http://archive.mises.org/7717/nyc-secession-for-self-determination-and-self-rule/

NYC Secession for Self-Determination and Self-Rule?

January 30, 2008 by

Emboldened by Mayor Bloomberg’s testimony in Albany this week that the city’s taxpayers pay the state $11 billion a year more than they get back, a City Council member is offering legislation that would begin the process of having New York City secede from New York State.

Peter Vallone Jr., a Democrat who represents Queens, is pushing the idea, and the Council plans to hold a hearing on the possibility of making New York City the 51st state.

“I think secession’s time has definitely come again,” Mr. Vallone, who spearheaded a similar push in 2003, told The New York Sun yesterday. “If not secession, somebody please tell me what other options we have if the state is going to continue to take billions from us and give us back pennies. Should we raise taxes some more? Should we cut services some more? Or should we consider seriously going out on our own?”

…Another council member, Simcha Felder, who chairs the Governmental Operations committee, said the bill will be considered this year.

“It certainly has merit,” Mr. Felder said of the proposal. “Why in the world should New York City be held hostage to the state? It just doesn’t make sense.”


8 January 31, 2008 at 7:34 am

Interesting because the rest of the state wants to ditch New York City.

Matthew Graybosch January 31, 2008 at 8:16 am

If it happens, I’m going to get drunk and sing “Manhattan uber alles”.

JC Hewitt January 31, 2008 at 8:20 am

All I want to know is if it will mean higher taxes or lower taxes. I’m not shooting at the Federals when they come marching in if it means having to pay Sweden-like protection money to the Bloomberg borg.

Manuel Lora January 31, 2008 at 8:58 am

I live in central upstate NY and there is no doubt that NYC has a huge influence in what happens in Albany. The influence of one city over the rest of the state (think Chicago vs the rest of IL) places all kinds of distortions, cross-subsidies and horrible laws. Every step towards decentralization, including secession, is a good one.

Dennis January 31, 2008 at 8:59 am

While I fully support the right of seccession, this article does raise a question.

Is the claim that there is a net tax loss from New York City to the rest of New York State accurate? It could be that if New York City became a seperate state it could receive considerably more in federal government transfer payments than it does now as a city that is part of New York State.

My understanding of the fiscal situation in New Jersey (the state in which I reside) is that the state’s cities, by a considerable margin, are the net receivers of the taxes levied by the State of New Jersey.

Curt Howland January 31, 2008 at 10:08 am

I lived in NJ and NY, and remember some 40 years ago there was a TV show local to NYC called “The 51st State”. Obviously this is an idea that has been bubbling around for quite a while.

What the secessionists might not want to consider is just how much MONEY the new independent Big Apple State is going to be paying the state of Upstate for 1) water and 2) electricity. The reservoirs for Big Apple stretch for a couple hundred miles north and west.

Personally, I think NYC should not just secede, it should join New Jersey. The municipal cooperation level and legal restrictions on things like firearms between NYC and NJ are close and tight, it would be hardly any change at all.

NJ has been pissing me off recently. So to NYC with them.

George Gaskell January 31, 2008 at 11:58 am

If it happens, I’m going to get drunk and sing “Manhattan uber alles”.

I, too will get drunk, although I will be singing Dixie.

Shawn Maier January 31, 2008 at 4:59 pm

Not that it matters, but isnt it in the Living Document Thingy about not forming a new state from an old one?

Then again, St. Lincoln did it with West Virginia.

As a WNY Upstater. Please. Please. Pretty Please. Dont go away mad, just go away.

Charles Stertling January 31, 2008 at 7:10 pm


A new state can be emerged from an established state.

Article 4

Section 3. New states may be admitted by the Congress into this union; but no new states shall be formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any other state; nor any state be formed by the junction of two or more states, or parts of states,without the consent of the legislatures of the states concerned as well as of the Congress.

Note the last few words.

Guess, Albany has to convince 49 other states that it is worth to add an extra star to the US flag. What old New York will be called since there can’t be two New York states. Perhaps NYC will be renamed as “New Amsterdam”?

Kevin R. Johnson January 31, 2008 at 8:21 pm

If anyone has ever studied the city of St. Louis is was once a thriving metropolis hosting Worlds Fairs so grand as to be the marvel of it’s era, massive industry, and trade. Then it cut itself off from St. Louis county because the city was upset that it put so much into the county and got so little back. We have only to see the state of St. Louis today to see how well the policy worked out. Creating artificial borders, new bureaucracy, and political dividing lines never helped anything. It encourages effects like St. Louis’s “great white flight”, loss of industry, loss of capital, and stifling regulation. I hope NYC can look back at the history of one once great city so as to not repeat history.

Byron A. Grimes February 1, 2008 at 12:22 am

Ah, now if we in Illinois can only get Chicagoland to do the same. Of course, if we can get a Constitutional Convention this Nov., maybe we can at least get rid of Home Rule, we need less totalitarian city codes. Down with Nanny State!

Maier February 1, 2008 at 8:35 am

Mr. Stertling,

Thank you.

I should have double checked. I guess, once again on my part, I lived Mark Twains quote about opening ones mouth.

NYC can keep the State of New York if they were so inclined. Upstate can probably look to the Seneca, Onondaga, Mohawk or one of the other tribes for appropriate naming of upstate.

It seems, that NYC has long flirted with striking out on their own. wikipedia and nycstatehood.org has some interesting information. It seems that there were even some copperheads in the Empire State.

Have a good day.

MWBrown February 5, 2008 at 12:36 am

From this article, it would seem the state of NY would lose 11,000,000,000.00 if NYC leaves the state.

I think secession will again be a hot topic in the next 25 to 50 years as the baby boomers start to retire and if federal executives continue to go to war forcing more states to contribute more money to the Pentagon’s coffers (and their private armorers) then the states may have no other choice.

S. Tinsley July 15, 2010 at 10:54 am

So New York gets two more Senators?
I don’t think so.

mpolzkill July 15, 2010 at 10:59 am

Haha, that reminds me of the one about why Israel turned down an offer to become the 51st state: because then they’d only have two Senators.

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