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	<title>Comments on: Credit Expansion, Economic Inequality, and Stagnant Wages</title>
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	<link>http://archive.mises.org/7651/credit-expansion-economic-inequality-and-stagnant-wages/</link>
	<description>Proceeding Ever More Boldly Against Evil</description>
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		<title>By: George Reisman</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/7651/credit-expansion-economic-inequality-and-stagnant-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-136726</link>
		<dc:creator>George Reisman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/007651.asp#comment-136726</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Answer from George Reisman: Alex, it&#039;s true that the seller of the machinery may have $800,000 cost of goods sold and thus that his profit on the sale is only $200,000. But the seller of advertising also has costs, and they will likely be comparable. So either way, we have a $1 million of sales revenue to a supplier and something on the order of $800,000 of costs to the suppliers. The difference is that in the case of the machine purchase, we have only $100,000 of cost to the buyer instead of $1 million of cost to the buyer, which is what we would have had in the advertising case. Thus, in the economic system as a whole, costs are still $900,000 less and profits are $900,000 more.
If you&#039;d like to learn more about the application of accounting to macroeconomics, please see Chapter 16 of my book Capitalism. It&#039;s on line in pdf format at www.capitalism.net. One of the things is demonstrates is that aggregate profit and aggregate net investment are very closely related as a matter of definition and often, as in the example I gave, move together dollar for dollar.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Answer from George Reisman: Alex, it&#8217;s true that the seller of the machinery may have $800,000 cost of goods sold and thus that his profit on the sale is only $200,000. But the seller of advertising also has costs, and they will likely be comparable. So either way, we have a $1 million of sales revenue to a supplier and something on the order of $800,000 of costs to the suppliers. The difference is that in the case of the machine purchase, we have only $100,000 of cost to the buyer instead of $1 million of cost to the buyer, which is what we would have had in the advertising case. Thus, in the economic system as a whole, costs are still $900,000 less and profits are $900,000 more.<br />
If you&#8217;d like to learn more about the application of accounting to macroeconomics, please see Chapter 16 of my book Capitalism. It&#8217;s on line in pdf format at <a href="http://www.capitalism.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.capitalism.net</a>. One of the things is demonstrates is that aggregate profit and aggregate net investment are very closely related as a matter of definition and often, as in the example I gave, move together dollar for dollar.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/7651/credit-expansion-economic-inequality-and-stagnant-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-136703</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 11:17:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/007651.asp#comment-136703</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[George Reisman needs a course in basic accounting. He says, &quot;But now imagine that the firm spends the same amount of money in buying durable machinery that will be depreciated over a ten-year period. Once again, a seller â€” this time the seller of the machinery â€” will immediately have additional sales revenues equal to our firm&#039;s additional expenditure. But in this case, our firm will certainly not have an equally large additional cost of production to report in its next income statement. If its expenditure for the machinery was $1 million, say, then while the seller has $1 million of additional sales revenues in his next annual income statement, our firm will probably have merely $100,000 of additional costs to report in its next annual income statement.&quot; 
George: the firm that sells a $1 million piece of machinery will have the costs of producing that machinery as an asset (the machine) on its balance sheet (it would be in an inventory account). When it sells the machine, it&#039;s profits for the machine sale will be recorded in the period of the sale as $1 million less the cost of sales, say $800,000 or $900,000 or whatever it cost it to make the machinery. With accelerated depreciation, it is even possible that the sum of the recorded profits of the buyer and seller with regard to the machine are negative.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George Reisman needs a course in basic accounting. He says, &#8220;But now imagine that the firm spends the same amount of money in buying durable machinery that will be depreciated over a ten-year period. Once again, a seller â€” this time the seller of the machinery â€” will immediately have additional sales revenues equal to our firm&#8217;s additional expenditure. But in this case, our firm will certainly not have an equally large additional cost of production to report in its next income statement. If its expenditure for the machinery was $1 million, say, then while the seller has $1 million of additional sales revenues in his next annual income statement, our firm will probably have merely $100,000 of additional costs to report in its next annual income statement.&#8221;<br />
George: the firm that sells a $1 million piece of machinery will have the costs of producing that machinery as an asset (the machine) on its balance sheet (it would be in an inventory account). When it sells the machine, it&#8217;s profits for the machine sale will be recorded in the period of the sale as $1 million less the cost of sales, say $800,000 or $900,000 or whatever it cost it to make the machinery. With accelerated depreciation, it is even possible that the sum of the recorded profits of the buyer and seller with regard to the machine are negative.</p>
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		<title>By: Gabriel</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/7651/credit-expansion-economic-inequality-and-stagnant-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-135855</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabriel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 01:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/007651.asp#comment-135855</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;The data is available from the St. Louis Fed. See &lt;a href=&quot;http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/COMPRNFB&quot;&gt;Nonfarm Business Sector: Real Compensation Per Hour&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/COMPRNFB.txt&quot;&gt;the actual data&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The base year is 1992 so 1992 = 100. From the &lt;a href=&quot;http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?cc&quot;&gt;BLS website&lt;/a&gt; we find out that in 1992, total compensation per hour was $17.27 ($12.33 in wages and $4.94 in benefits of which $1.13 was health insurance). Adjusting for inflation gives the following numbers: $25.52 per hour total compensation, $18.22 per hour in wages, $7.30 in benefits of which $1.67 was health insurance.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;With that information, we can calculate the dollar amounts of real per hour compensation in any year from 1947 to today. For example, in 1973 the index is about 85. We set up a mathematic ratio as follows: 25.52 / 100 = x / 85. Solving for x gives $21.69 which is the total compensation per hour in 2007 dollars in 1973. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We can go further and figure out how much of that was in wages and how much was in benefits. &lt;a href=&quot;http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?ce&quot;&gt;Wage data&lt;/a&gt; is available from the BLS. Using that information, we find out that in 1973, average hourly earnings were around $9.08 in 1982 dollars. In 2007 dollars that is $19.51. So the wage component of total compensation in 1973 is $19.51 leaving $2.18 in benefits ($21.69 - $19.51).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Compare that to the total compensation numbers for 2007. Workers received $28.03 per hour total which included $19.56 in wages, and $8.47 in benefits of which $2.21 was health insurance. &lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The data is available from the St. Louis Fed. See <a href="http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/COMPRNFB">Nonfarm Business Sector: Real Compensation Per Hour</a> and <a href="http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/COMPRNFB.txt">the actual data</a>.</p>
<p>The base year is 1992 so 1992 = 100. From the <a href="http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?cc">BLS website</a> we find out that in 1992, total compensation per hour was $17.27 ($12.33 in wages and $4.94 in benefits of which $1.13 was health insurance). Adjusting for inflation gives the following numbers: $25.52 per hour total compensation, $18.22 per hour in wages, $7.30 in benefits of which $1.67 was health insurance.</p>
<p>With that information, we can calculate the dollar amounts of real per hour compensation in any year from 1947 to today. For example, in 1973 the index is about 85. We set up a mathematic ratio as follows: 25.52 / 100 = x / 85. Solving for x gives $21.69 which is the total compensation per hour in 2007 dollars in 1973. </p>
<p>We can go further and figure out how much of that was in wages and how much was in benefits. <a href="http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?ce">Wage data</a> is available from the BLS. Using that information, we find out that in 1973, average hourly earnings were around $9.08 in 1982 dollars. In 2007 dollars that is $19.51. So the wage component of total compensation in 1973 is $19.51 leaving $2.18 in benefits ($21.69 &#8211; $19.51).</p>
<p>Compare that to the total compensation numbers for 2007. Workers received $28.03 per hour total which included $19.56 in wages, and $8.47 in benefits of which $2.21 was health insurance. </p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/7651/credit-expansion-economic-inequality-and-stagnant-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-135434</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/007651.asp#comment-135434</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fundamentalist, the answer to your question is very no. For what reason ought wages to remain unchanged? Prices are never static in a free market.
Mark, you make a good point. But I would conjecture that an almost instantaneous increase in one variable, labour would preceded the resulting capital accumulation. To say that there has been no impact on wages due to &#039;fall of communism&#039; argument and to blame the unimpressive rise of real wages exclusively to government is unnecessarily extreme.
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fundamentalist, the answer to your question is very no. For what reason ought wages to remain unchanged? Prices are never static in a free market.<br />
Mark, you make a good point. But I would conjecture that an almost instantaneous increase in one variable, labour would preceded the resulting capital accumulation. To say that there has been no impact on wages due to &#8216;fall of communism&#8217; argument and to blame the unimpressive rise of real wages exclusively to government is unnecessarily extreme.</p>
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		<title>By: fundamentalist</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/7651/credit-expansion-economic-inequality-and-stagnant-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-135409</link>
		<dc:creator>fundamentalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/007651.asp#comment-135409</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gabriel: &quot;I&#039;ll keep looking for more precise data though.&quot;

I&#039;ll take you word for it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gabriel: &#8220;I&#8217;ll keep looking for more precise data though.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll take you word for it.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Humphrey</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/7651/credit-expansion-economic-inequality-and-stagnant-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-135407</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Humphrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/007651.asp#comment-135407</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks to Dr. Reisman for another great article! 

Gabriel is on target in pointing out that wage rates ultimately reflect changes in productivity, while productivity is primarily boosted by the accuumulation of additional capital. And as Dr. Reisman explains in &quot;Capitalism&quot;, an increase in capital goods happens nearly as soon as new workers are introduced into the division of labor.  

There are several interrelated ways in which the addition of more workers to an economy boosts productivity and real wage rates. First, the division of labor is intensified and extended by the additional workforce, which lifts the producitivty of the existing capital stock. For workers temporarily displaced by new labor find work as new employment is created in response to  new spending. What is the source of this new spending? Reductions in nominal wage costs, which yield higher business incomes, which are consumed or invested. Either way, the new spending adds to capital spending, most obviously in the form of hiring new workers; but also as spending on producer goods to lift production. So the capital base increases and real wage rates are nudged higher. 

On a seperate note, there is a small problem with the idea that rising job benefits have rescued real wage rates from stagnation in the USA since, say, 1990. The steadily increasing dollar costs associated with such benefits are due in part to rising inefficiency in the health care system as the result of increasing regulations of medical provision. To cite one of several possible examples, recall the rising cost of medical malpractice lawsuits, which are certainly a form of legalized extortion from Doctors and hospitals to trial lawyers. Skepticism about the value of the growth in &quot;benefits&quot; is in order.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to Dr. Reisman for another great article! </p>
<p>Gabriel is on target in pointing out that wage rates ultimately reflect changes in productivity, while productivity is primarily boosted by the accuumulation of additional capital. And as Dr. Reisman explains in &#8220;Capitalism&#8221;, an increase in capital goods happens nearly as soon as new workers are introduced into the division of labor.  </p>
<p>There are several interrelated ways in which the addition of more workers to an economy boosts productivity and real wage rates. First, the division of labor is intensified and extended by the additional workforce, which lifts the producitivty of the existing capital stock. For workers temporarily displaced by new labor find work as new employment is created in response to  new spending. What is the source of this new spending? Reductions in nominal wage costs, which yield higher business incomes, which are consumed or invested. Either way, the new spending adds to capital spending, most obviously in the form of hiring new workers; but also as spending on producer goods to lift production. So the capital base increases and real wage rates are nudged higher. </p>
<p>On a seperate note, there is a small problem with the idea that rising job benefits have rescued real wage rates from stagnation in the USA since, say, 1990. The steadily increasing dollar costs associated with such benefits are due in part to rising inefficiency in the health care system as the result of increasing regulations of medical provision. To cite one of several possible examples, recall the rising cost of medical malpractice lawsuits, which are certainly a form of legalized extortion from Doctors and hospitals to trial lawyers. Skepticism about the value of the growth in &#8220;benefits&#8221; is in order.</p>
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		<title>By: Gabriel</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/7651/credit-expansion-economic-inequality-and-stagnant-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-135395</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabriel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/007651.asp#comment-135395</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Incidentally, many fringe benefits became tax-free &lt;em&gt;in the 1970s&lt;/em&gt;, so it should be no surprise that people responded by shifting money that would have gone toward increasing actual wages instead toward increasing benefits. It&#039;s the market at work.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incidentally, many fringe benefits became tax-free <em>in the 1970s</em>, so it should be no surprise that people responded by shifting money that would have gone toward increasing actual wages instead toward increasing benefits. It&#8217;s the market at work.</p>
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		<title>By: Gabriel</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/7651/credit-expansion-economic-inequality-and-stagnant-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-135394</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabriel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/007651.asp#comment-135394</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Jonathan, wages are determined by the productivity of labor. The idea that &quot;mobile capital, exploding communications technology and rapidly increasing standards of education in the developing world&quot; would &quot;severely cap&quot; wages in the west depends on the assumption that those things cause workers in the US to have lower productivity. That assumption can be false because the additional growth in the rest of the world can actually provide the means to increasing capital (and thus productivity) here in the US and therefore more than counteract the downward pressure on wages caused by an increase in the global supply of workers. Although it is of course &lt;em&gt;possible&lt;/em&gt; for productivity here to fall at the same time that the rest of the world develops, that does not &lt;em&gt;necessarily&lt;/em&gt; have to occur if the market here is relatively free. For more explanation, see Reisman&#039;s &lt;em&gt;Capitalism&lt;/em&gt; or Reisman&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://capitalism.net/articles/Globalization.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;Globalization&quot;&lt;/a&gt; article.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m getting closer to find the historical employee compensation data. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/speech/kroszner20060927a.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Federal Reserve&#039;s website&lt;/a&gt; has a &lt;em&gt;chart&lt;/em&gt; showing real compensation per hour all the way back to 1947. The infamous year 1973 is significantly below today&#039;s mark. The increase in benefits has outstripped the decline in wages by far. I&#039;ll keep looking for more precise data though.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan, wages are determined by the productivity of labor. The idea that &#8220;mobile capital, exploding communications technology and rapidly increasing standards of education in the developing world&#8221; would &#8220;severely cap&#8221; wages in the west depends on the assumption that those things cause workers in the US to have lower productivity. That assumption can be false because the additional growth in the rest of the world can actually provide the means to increasing capital (and thus productivity) here in the US and therefore more than counteract the downward pressure on wages caused by an increase in the global supply of workers. Although it is of course <em>possible</em> for productivity here to fall at the same time that the rest of the world develops, that does not <em>necessarily</em> have to occur if the market here is relatively free. For more explanation, see Reisman&#8217;s <em>Capitalism</em> or Reisman&#8217;s <a href="http://capitalism.net/articles/Globalization.htm" rel="nofollow">&#8220;Globalization&#8221;</a> article.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m getting closer to find the historical employee compensation data. <a href="http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/speech/kroszner20060927a.htm" rel="nofollow">The Federal Reserve&#8217;s website</a> has a <em>chart</em> showing real compensation per hour all the way back to 1947. The infamous year 1973 is significantly below today&#8217;s mark. The increase in benefits has outstripped the decline in wages by far. I&#8217;ll keep looking for more precise data though.</p>
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		<title>By: fundamentalist</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/7651/credit-expansion-economic-inequality-and-stagnant-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-135367</link>
		<dc:creator>fundamentalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 04:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/007651.asp#comment-135367</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jonathan: &quot;what we would need, which is unfortunately not possible, is to know what wages would have been without such an increase of labour/capital ratios.&quot;

Wouldn&#039;t that wage be the wage that existed before the fall of communism?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan: &#8220;what we would need, which is unfortunately not possible, is to know what wages would have been without such an increase of labour/capital ratios.&#8221;</p>
<p>Wouldn&#8217;t that wage be the wage that existed before the fall of communism?</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/7651/credit-expansion-economic-inequality-and-stagnant-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-135365</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 04:06:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/007651.asp#comment-135365</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If one increases the ratio of labour to capital, then it is reasonable to expect the subsequent cost of labour to be lower than it would otherwise have been. To look at subsequent wage rates isnt very informative...what we would need, which is unfortunately not possible, is to know what wages would have been without such an increase of labour/capital ratios.
With regards to the other points, I am in agreement. I am being pedantic in that one has to acknowledge there are other, signficiant factors at work here which need to be acknowledged.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If one increases the ratio of labour to capital, then it is reasonable to expect the subsequent cost of labour to be lower than it would otherwise have been. To look at subsequent wage rates isnt very informative&#8230;what we would need, which is unfortunately not possible, is to know what wages would have been without such an increase of labour/capital ratios.<br />
With regards to the other points, I am in agreement. I am being pedantic in that one has to acknowledge there are other, signficiant factors at work here which need to be acknowledged.</p>
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		<title>By: fundamentalist</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/7651/credit-expansion-economic-inequality-and-stagnant-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-135355</link>
		<dc:creator>fundamentalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 02:26:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/007651.asp#comment-135355</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jonathan, 
The problem with the &quot;fall of communismâ€ theory is that wages in the US rebounded in about &#039;90, right after the fall, and have been climbing ever since. A lot of things affect wages in the short run, but in the long run it&#039;s all about productivity. Capital investment determines productivity levels and anything that lowers capital investment lowers wages. Just about everything the Federal Reserve and the federal government do hurts capital investment.

Besides, Dr. Reisman wasn&#039;t writing about lower wages, but inequality caused by the wealthy becoming wealthier at a faster rate than other classes. The cause is simple: if certain people consistently receive new money first, before prices rise, they will benefit financially over those who get the new money last, after prices have risen.
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan,<br />
The problem with the &#8220;fall of communismâ€ theory is that wages in the US rebounded in about &#8217;90, right after the fall, and have been climbing ever since. A lot of things affect wages in the short run, but in the long run it&#8217;s all about productivity. Capital investment determines productivity levels and anything that lowers capital investment lowers wages. Just about everything the Federal Reserve and the federal government do hurts capital investment.</p>
<p>Besides, Dr. Reisman wasn&#8217;t writing about lower wages, but inequality caused by the wealthy becoming wealthier at a faster rate than other classes. The cause is simple: if certain people consistently receive new money first, before prices rise, they will benefit financially over those who get the new money last, after prices have risen.</p>
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		<title>By: Gabriel</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/7651/credit-expansion-economic-inequality-and-stagnant-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-135351</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabriel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 01:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/007651.asp#comment-135351</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Jonathan, I&#039;m not aware of any correlation between growth in the rest of the world and lower wages in the West. There isn&#039;t necessarily any connection. For example, since 2000, communications technology has been better than at any previous time, more people in the third world have been better educated, and I&#039;ll bet capital is more mobile than ever. According to you, that&#039;s a recipe for low wages here, but (see the data I posted above), since 2000, wages/benefits have grown.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m still trying to find where I saw the data going back to the &#039;70s. &lt;a href=&quot;ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/ocwc/ect/ecechist.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This pdf&lt;/a&gt; takes it back to 1986 (see page 12). But I know I saw going back further than that. The problem is, from 1986 and onward, the BLS called this measure &quot;Employer Costs for Employee Compensation,&quot; but before 1986, they called it something else. I don&#039;t remember what. But I will keep looking. Also, as I write, parts of the BLS website are not functioning (they say they they&#039;re updating their database). That may be why I can&#039;t find it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;fundamentalism, you&#039;re right about real wages per hour being less today than in 1973. But the difference was more than made up by the increase in benefits. I hope I can find that data!&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan, I&#8217;m not aware of any correlation between growth in the rest of the world and lower wages in the West. There isn&#8217;t necessarily any connection. For example, since 2000, communications technology has been better than at any previous time, more people in the third world have been better educated, and I&#8217;ll bet capital is more mobile than ever. According to you, that&#8217;s a recipe for low wages here, but (see the data I posted above), since 2000, wages/benefits have grown.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still trying to find where I saw the data going back to the &#8217;70s. <a href="ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/ocwc/ect/ecechist.pdf" rel="nofollow">This pdf</a> takes it back to 1986 (see page 12). But I know I saw going back further than that. The problem is, from 1986 and onward, the BLS called this measure &#8220;Employer Costs for Employee Compensation,&#8221; but before 1986, they called it something else. I don&#8217;t remember what. But I will keep looking. Also, as I write, parts of the BLS website are not functioning (they say they they&#8217;re updating their database). That may be why I can&#8217;t find it.</p>
<p>fundamentalism, you&#8217;re right about real wages per hour being less today than in 1973. But the difference was more than made up by the increase in benefits. I hope I can find that data!</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/7651/credit-expansion-economic-inequality-and-stagnant-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-135307</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 07:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/007651.asp#comment-135307</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is an oversimplification to say that real wages have been falling because of govt policy. I enjoy GR pieces but one must not oversimpolify points as it provides easy refutation for &#039;liberals&#039;.
It has been said that the fall of communism saw the global effective labour force double...combine this with mobile capital, exploding communications technology and rapidly increasing standards of education in the developing world it would be startling if real wages in the west were not severely capped. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is an oversimplification to say that real wages have been falling because of govt policy. I enjoy GR pieces but one must not oversimpolify points as it provides easy refutation for &#8216;liberals&#8217;.<br />
It has been said that the fall of communism saw the global effective labour force double&#8230;combine this with mobile capital, exploding communications technology and rapidly increasing standards of education in the developing world it would be startling if real wages in the west were not severely capped. </p>
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		<title>By: Inquisitor</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/7651/credit-expansion-economic-inequality-and-stagnant-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-135296</link>
		<dc:creator>Inquisitor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 05:45:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/007651.asp#comment-135296</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d also be interested in those figures - perhaps a link even.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d also be interested in those figures &#8211; perhaps a link even.</p>
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		<title>By: fundamentalist</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/7651/credit-expansion-economic-inequality-and-stagnant-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-135291</link>
		<dc:creator>fundamentalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 04:47:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/007651.asp#comment-135291</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Along the line of Dr. Reisman&#039;s point about monetary inflation causing inequality, you should check out the trends of wages by industry on the BLS web site. I don&#039;t remember all of them, but I clearly remember that wages in financial services have outpaced every other industry. I wonder why that could be? Could they be receiving the new money first? On the other hand, consumer services, such as hotels, have the lowest wages. Of course, education plays a role, but financial services doesn&#039;t require any more education than many other industries with lower wages.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Along the line of Dr. Reisman&#8217;s point about monetary inflation causing inequality, you should check out the trends of wages by industry on the BLS web site. I don&#8217;t remember all of them, but I clearly remember that wages in financial services have outpaced every other industry. I wonder why that could be? Could they be receiving the new money first? On the other hand, consumer services, such as hotels, have the lowest wages. Of course, education plays a role, but financial services doesn&#8217;t require any more education than many other industries with lower wages.</p>
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		<title>By: fundamentalist</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/7651/credit-expansion-economic-inequality-and-stagnant-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-135288</link>
		<dc:creator>fundamentalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 04:38:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/007651.asp#comment-135288</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gabriel, Did you find data on benefits back to 1960? I could find it only back to about &#039;91.

When I was doing my research, I was mainly concerned with demonstrating the effect of productivity on wages. The data shows a strong correlation between average wages and productivity and explains a large part of the downward trend from &#039;73 and the upward trend since &#039;90. Since productivity is determined primarily through capital investment, most of the popular proposals to boost wages would actually hurt wages by reducing capital investment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gabriel, Did you find data on benefits back to 1960? I could find it only back to about &#8217;91.</p>
<p>When I was doing my research, I was mainly concerned with demonstrating the effect of productivity on wages. The data shows a strong correlation between average wages and productivity and explains a large part of the downward trend from &#8217;73 and the upward trend since &#8217;90. Since productivity is determined primarily through capital investment, most of the popular proposals to boost wages would actually hurt wages by reducing capital investment.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: fundamentalist</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/7651/credit-expansion-economic-inequality-and-stagnant-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-135287</link>
		<dc:creator>fundamentalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 04:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/007651.asp#comment-135287</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Grant: &quot;the introduction of poor, less-skilled workers pushes down mean and median wages while not actually effecting the well-being of those who were in the sample group before those new workers arrived.&quot;

That&#039;s a very good point. Aggregate numbers hide a lot of interesting things. 

Gabriel found something different in the BLS data than I did, and I would be interested in seeing his data. He says that average wages aren&#039;t lower today than &#039;73, while the data I had seen showed a decline from &#039;73 until about &#039;90 then a strong rise but not matching &#039;73. But my didn&#039;t didn&#039;t include benefits, I believe, and his does. Nevertheless, I have often wondered how middle class standards of living could increase so much since &#039;73 while average wages haven&#039;t. Benefits could be some of the explanation, but your thoughts on the influence on the mean of immigration may be the rest of the answer. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grant: &#8220;the introduction of poor, less-skilled workers pushes down mean and median wages while not actually effecting the well-being of those who were in the sample group before those new workers arrived.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a very good point. Aggregate numbers hide a lot of interesting things. </p>
<p>Gabriel found something different in the BLS data than I did, and I would be interested in seeing his data. He says that average wages aren&#8217;t lower today than &#8217;73, while the data I had seen showed a decline from &#8217;73 until about &#8217;90 then a strong rise but not matching &#8217;73. But my didn&#8217;t didn&#8217;t include benefits, I believe, and his does. Nevertheless, I have often wondered how middle class standards of living could increase so much since &#8217;73 while average wages haven&#8217;t. Benefits could be some of the explanation, but your thoughts on the influence on the mean of immigration may be the rest of the answer. </p>
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		<title>By: Gabriel</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/7651/credit-expansion-economic-inequality-and-stagnant-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-135283</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabriel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 03:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/007651.asp#comment-135283</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;All data is from the BLS, and adjusted (using CPI) into 2007 dollars.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There have been periods of wages + benefits stagnation, there have been periods of wages + benefits falling, and there have been periods of wages + benefits rising in the past few decades.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;In 1991 (the earliest year I could find &lt;em&gt;both&lt;/em&gt; wage &lt;em&gt;and&lt;/em&gt; benefits data for), workers received $24.91 per hour ($17.89 in wages and $7.04 in benefits).&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;By 1999, workers received $25.13 per hour ($18.23 in wages and $6.91 in benefits).&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That&#039;s an increase of just 22 cents in eight years. I call that stagnation. In contrast, however:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;In 2000, workers made $25.35 per hour ($18.40 in wages and $6.95 in benefits)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;In 2007, workers made $28.03 per hour ($19.56 in wages and $8.47 in benefits)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That&#039;s an increase of $2.68 in seven years or about 1.5% per year. It&#039;s not fabulous, but its not stagnation either.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A few months ago, I managed to find the data all the way back to the 60s (and including the famous 1973 year). It turned out that after adding &lt;em&gt;both&lt;/em&gt; wages AND benefits and adjusting for inflation, in 1973 worker compensation was less than it was today. In other words, the decline in wages was more than offset by a rise in benefits. Is anyone is interested, I can dig up the numbers again.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All data is from the BLS, and adjusted (using CPI) into 2007 dollars.</p>
<p>There have been periods of wages + benefits stagnation, there have been periods of wages + benefits falling, and there have been periods of wages + benefits rising in the past few decades.</p>
<ul>
<li>
<p>In 1991 (the earliest year I could find <em>both</em> wage <em>and</em> benefits data for), workers received $24.91 per hour ($17.89 in wages and $7.04 in benefits).</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>By 1999, workers received $25.13 per hour ($18.23 in wages and $6.91 in benefits).</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p>That&#8217;s an increase of just 22 cents in eight years. I call that stagnation. In contrast, however:</p>
<ul>
<li>
<p>In 2000, workers made $25.35 per hour ($18.40 in wages and $6.95 in benefits)</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>In 2007, workers made $28.03 per hour ($19.56 in wages and $8.47 in benefits)</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p>That&#8217;s an increase of $2.68 in seven years or about 1.5% per year. It&#8217;s not fabulous, but its not stagnation either.</p>
<p>A few months ago, I managed to find the data all the way back to the 60s (and including the famous 1973 year). It turned out that after adding <em>both</em> wages AND benefits and adjusting for inflation, in 1973 worker compensation was less than it was today. In other words, the decline in wages was more than offset by a rise in benefits. Is anyone is interested, I can dig up the numbers again.</p>
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		<title>By: Som</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/7651/credit-expansion-economic-inequality-and-stagnant-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-135271</link>
		<dc:creator>Som</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:37:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/007651.asp#comment-135271</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What&#039;s this? Yet another social ill that socialists and Keynesians claim to be the consequences of the &quot;anarchy of production&quot; that is actually the result of the government&#039;s legal tender laws and mass counterfeiting? Once again Dr Reisman writes a great article! 

I always suspected it since learning from the Mises institute, but now Dr Reisman now confirms a major aspect of it, that most of the social &quot;inequalities&quot; under the truly free market are merely the result of each individuals diverse preferences rather than a stratified hierarchy, like one person having blue socks and another having red socks, instead of one person having blue socks while another has no socks. 

This is a great article for the pro-welfare state left to read. 

Finally, I think Eugen Bohm Bawerk (forgive my errors in spelling) said that labor cannot increase its share at the expense of capital, but is credit expansion generally a (failed) attempt to increase the share of capital at the expense of labor??]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s this? Yet another social ill that socialists and Keynesians claim to be the consequences of the &#8220;anarchy of production&#8221; that is actually the result of the government&#8217;s legal tender laws and mass counterfeiting? Once again Dr Reisman writes a great article! </p>
<p>I always suspected it since learning from the Mises institute, but now Dr Reisman now confirms a major aspect of it, that most of the social &#8220;inequalities&#8221; under the truly free market are merely the result of each individuals diverse preferences rather than a stratified hierarchy, like one person having blue socks and another having red socks, instead of one person having blue socks while another has no socks. </p>
<p>This is a great article for the pro-welfare state left to read. </p>
<p>Finally, I think Eugen Bohm Bawerk (forgive my errors in spelling) said that labor cannot increase its share at the expense of capital, but is credit expansion generally a (failed) attempt to increase the share of capital at the expense of labor??</p>
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		<title>By: Grant</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/7651/credit-expansion-economic-inequality-and-stagnant-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-135252</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:57:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/007651.asp#comment-135252</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[fundamentalist, the GMU guys are typically a lot less pessimistic, about wages and other things.

&lt;blockquote&gt;The data on benefits hasn&#039;t been kept for very long, so it&#039;s hard to tell, but extrapolating backwards from today&#039;s level, benefits don&#039;t seem to have varied that much. They seem to follow the trend in wages, too.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I&#039;ve always read that benefits have increased significantly, especially in health care. But I don&#039;t know if thats the truth, a damned lie, or a statistic.

I think its pretty obvious that, regardless of what statistics say, the standard of living has increased significantly since 1973. The poor have cell phones, cars with airbags, cable TV and an internet connection.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Average wages have risen constantly since the early &#039;90&#039;s in spite of increased immigration.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
My point is that (all else being equal) the introduction of poor, less-skilled workers pushes down mean and median wages while not actually effecting the well-being of those who were in the sample group before those new workers arrived. It seems to me any statistics should correct for immigration. If China were to suddenly become part of the USA and our statistics, we couldn&#039;t suddenly say the USA got poorer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fundamentalist, the GMU guys are typically a lot less pessimistic, about wages and other things.</p>
<blockquote><p>The data on benefits hasn&#8217;t been kept for very long, so it&#8217;s hard to tell, but extrapolating backwards from today&#8217;s level, benefits don&#8217;t seem to have varied that much. They seem to follow the trend in wages, too.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;ve always read that benefits have increased significantly, especially in health care. But I don&#8217;t know if thats the truth, a damned lie, or a statistic.</p>
<p>I think its pretty obvious that, regardless of what statistics say, the standard of living has increased significantly since 1973. The poor have cell phones, cars with airbags, cable TV and an internet connection.</p>
<blockquote><p>Average wages have risen constantly since the early &#8217;90&#8242;s in spite of increased immigration.</p></blockquote>
<p>My point is that (all else being equal) the introduction of poor, less-skilled workers pushes down mean and median wages while not actually effecting the well-being of those who were in the sample group before those new workers arrived. It seems to me any statistics should correct for immigration. If China were to suddenly become part of the USA and our statistics, we couldn&#8217;t suddenly say the USA got poorer.</p>
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