As for imperialism or enslaved pacifism. I’m not advocating either. If you want to live in a certain way then sooner or later you will have to fight to be allowed to. American revolution (revolt? tongue in cheek) springs to mind. Fighting against those who attack you isn’t imperialism. The war in iraq is constitutional and legal. If people don’t like it tough. You can’t be part of a system and opt out when you feel like it. Or rather you can’t be part of a system and opt out from the bits you don’t like whenever you feel like it while still grabbing the benefits with both hands. Nor am i advocating conscription, merely making the obvious point that there is no longer any relationship between those who make the decisions and any personal risk on their part – especially the political and so-called cultural elite. The fourth estate springs to mind. It has now become solely a means for the left-liberal view point to be peddled regardless of the facts. the facts are now made to fit the desired view point. Vietnam was a prime example of this.

A disturbing theme in some of the comments i have read is the failure to understand my point above. To say that those who serve their country are mindless and deserving of what they get is truly disturbing. My own view is that those who sit on their backsides enjoying the fruits of others toil because they like it and who then won’t countenance risking themselves or removing themselves from that system, they deserve all that they get. unfortunately, the rest of us don’t deserve what people that like often impose on us.

Liberty isn’t about doing everything you want when you want to. It is also about a grown up appreciation that with your rights come responsibilities. Any mature adult knows that in life you have to take the rough with the smooth. and if you don’t want to then you can legally work to change the system, but in the mean time must abide by its current rules. The “hell no I won’t go” leftwing from the vietnam era represent a truly childish and immature trend within the west. Yet the same people would scream blue murder if I refused to pay my taxes to support their failed social programmes. They would happily imprison me, confiscate my property etc. They can be free while the rest of us can be free if we agree with them. Now that is slavery.

Vietnam was fought (as the current iraq war is being fought) as a police action and not a war and, therefore, failed against a determined idealogical enemy with the full might of the western press behind it. Swap Iraq for Germany. Can you imagine armed nazi strongholds being allowed in germany after the end of WWII? Armed militias of brownshirts prowling berlin? The opinions of nazi militia leaders being taken into account regarding security policies? Minimum force against SS werewolves? In war the maximum force rule wins with the least casualties.

In vietnam the american people bottled it in the face of casualities that wern’t even the equivalent of a few days on the Somme. The innocents of south east asia then paid the price, not because america got behind pol pot but because the communists slaughtered them while the western press and intellectual elite pretended that it wasn’t happening. As Kipling said “just because your own front door is shut you think the whole world’s warm”.

Freedom isn’t bought in a few bloodless days. If you don’t like the idea that it costs and that it often takes years, then go and live in iran or the soviet union at its height. There you can learn the price of short term surrender. usually more (30 million in soviet russia alone) die in the long term and often you never get out from under it. And if you don’t fight it at its source then eventually it comes after you at home. As the French, Belgians, Soviets etc learned in WWII, don’t wait until the enemy is in your homeland before fighting them unless you want to see your homeland devastated.

If the US pulls out of iraq and afgahnistan then mass butchery will follow. More importantly Bin Laden will be proven right in that “America is a paper tiger” and the jihadis will “surge” globally. Then sit back and wait for the storm. It’ll get to the US and Europe eventually. Some would already argue that it has.

As for Bush etc not having sons in the military, well neither do the judges, university academics, “free” press, liberals etc. Yes it stinks but it doesn’t mean the war is wrong. It just means that american (and western) culture stinks because the people are dumb enough to accept leaders in all walks of life who accept the benefits of living in a free society but don’t have the bottle to defend it as soldiers or as statesmen. But then, when push comes to shove, neither do most of the electorate. The Romans made military active (war) service a prerequisite for political office. The idea deserves some consideration – but not just for political office.

I think we got off on the wrong foot. Look, I come from a place where people speak very directly and I guess it comes through when I post.

When you criticized Lew Rockwell, I felt bad because he and Jeffrey Tucker and who knows how many other people work their butts off keeping this website and the Institute in Auburn going. This is one of the most comprehensive websites dedicated to learning that I’ve ever seen. You should explore it and see for yourself.

In addition, there’s LewRockwell.com. As if that wasn’t enough, Lew holds seminars around the country as well.

So, you may not like his point of view, but at least give him credit for dedicating so much of his time so that we can benefit from the teachings of people such as LVM, Rothbard, Hazlitt, Bastiat, Hoppe, and the rest of the crew. Not to mention what we can learn from each other.

It looks like you’ve got a couple of good guys who are willing to help you out, so consider yourself lucky. Listen and learn and you will find blogging can be a rewarding experience.

Good luck!

“but should you find truth,”

should have been

“but unless you find the truth,”

“You have so much in common with the terrorists with whom we are at war, both of you are totally blind to all reality and reasonableness because of your extreme hatred, theirs for Christianity and America, yours for George W. Bush and Republicans. Both of you cannot be bothered with facts, because they get in the way of your unadulterated hatred.”

From your commentary, it seems that you believe us to be “leftists”. You’ll find that such distinctions hold little relevance here. Both “left” and “right” are rife with contradictions buttered with a creamy smooth layer of empty rhetoric. Both depend upon force and fraud to remain in power, therefore, both are equally illegitimate. Bush simply pushes the horrible destructive machine of the state ever onward, and for that, he deserves our disapproval.

Truth is not divided into “left” and “right”. It does not conform to an ideology. It is not the truth because God, or your church’s pastor, or the president of the United States has proclaimed it. The truth is.

I once believed as you do, that this once-great country was fighting a noble battle against would-be oppressors. There came a point when I realized that this vision could not be true. I soon found the truth, hidden beneath the patriotic exhorting of the warhawks and the directionless grumbling of the anti-war left.

The truth is that no force or violence is justified except when used in self-defense. Many so-called libertarians believe that Iraq can be justified on the grounds that the nation posed a threat to us or were already engaged in an attack through terrorism. The evidence of any threat was shaky before and has now been shown to be completely false. The war was launched on a lie, and no amount of patriotism or appeals to “fight for freedom” will ever change that. Freedom is meaningless unless it is applied universally.

It is with vain hope that I implore you to search for the truth, as I did. Look at what Bush has done. Weigh his actions carefully against their proported justifications and judge them objectively. I will not lie to you. You are probably happier living in ignorance, at least for the present, but should you find truth, you will be that much less a human being and that much more a tool of and slave to the state.

Above all else, be prepared for the unthinkable to occur in the next year-and-a-half. Please look up “Executive Order 12919″ and tell me that I’m being paranoid to imagine that the sweeping powers granted therein will remain beyond the reach of our president for much longer.

Gee, can anyone say hoi polloi?

sorry, didn’t see your earlier post.

you are incorrect though that the neocons haven’t been able to accurately predict what would happen in an Iraq invasion. Dick Cheney has been spot on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YENbElb5-xY
————-
haha, just shows that lot is smarter than we give them credit for, and as dishonest, as we have long suspected.

#1 America is NOT a democracy,thank God! The founders were very much against this tyrrany of the masses,a system where the one is crushed by the many,5000 folks may argue with three that the earth is flat and decide to kill the three but guess what, the 5000 are WRONG,same with many things.

#2 America is a REPUBLIC ruled by laws,namely the Constitution and the Bill of Rights,if we were actually operating by these laws they would not be doing most of what is going on today,I fully support blasting anyone who attacks me or my country,but I am not convinced,we are on the right track with a so called “War on terror” you can’t fight a method, you fight an enemy.

My concern is not so much about the war,although it is certainly an issue that must be addressed,my concern is what I see happening to that rule of law I mentioned earlier,you can’t fight an enemy of liberty by cutting off our liberty,we must become free-er not more police state like,we must seal up our nations borders and monitor who is coming,not silence the people when they disagree with the govt,thats how a fascist acts not a son of the republic.

The federal govt is so far out of control it will take a miracle to pull it back into the control, of America,and allow America to shine through again,time to get rid of the cheap imposter known as the fed and return to the republic, to America to the dream that is still there but hidden under a heavy layer of govicorp that would like to make sure that people never again taste what America stands for,my oath is to defend the Constitution against ALL enemies foreign or DOMESTIC,not to defend democracy,or the president or the system,but the Constitution,nuff said!

I can only speak for myself here, but I believe that there is no preferable form of governance since all rely on the same notion of force. Wilhelm Ropke (Roepke), the economist who inspired the post-war Deustch, or German, “economic miracle” once famously remarked after seeing all of his liberal reforms systematically done to waste something I paraphrase to the tune of, “Ours is an unending fight, freedom must be fought for anew each day.” It is true enough. Certainly, the state is our foe. I, personally, shall never be satisfied with any concessions the crowned heads shall make. They too fight perpetually, though instead their struggle is for ever more power and influence. May I also say that they seek prestige and nobility to mask their programs? The ends, being peace and prosperity, we fight only through just and liberal means, never by the sword unless in defense (even then, violence is used with greatest hesitation). Though you may disagree with Mr. Rockwell and others for attacking Bush, do not doubt that they do so with good reason. You can justify the situation as not being “that bad”, but I will ever say, it will never be good enough.

sorry, didn’t see your earlier post.

you are incorrect though that the neocons haven’t been able to accurately predict what would happen in an Iraq invasion. Dick Cheney has been spot on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YENbElb5-xY