This excerpt from an article on Americans abandoning U.S. automakers provides an idea of just how ignorant one would have to be to believe that “buying American” makes any sense:
Justin Watson, a 25-year old laborer and student from Beaumont, Texas, says he is fiercely loyal to American cars.
“My great-grandfather, grandfather and father fought against these people,” he said of countries that are leading competitors of American automakers. “We’re killing ourselves by buying their cars. I drive a Dodge truck, and always buy American.”
(Internal link mine)
{ 33 comments }
Not long ago, I saw an article explaining that the American-made content of the leading truck sellers was: Ford–65%; GM–67%; Toyota–80%
If most American cars weren’t crap, I might consider buying one. As most of them are, I will stick with Honda.
As I said before, the American auto industry needs in a desperate way to rid themselves of the U.A.W., which is strangling them in many ways. G.M. and Ford would be both well advised to simply cease current operations completely. Close all their plants and move them to areas general known for being union free. Then reopen as union free corporations. Yes, its quite a gambit, but at least it will give G.M. and Ford a chance at long term survival. As it is now, they are being drug inexorably down by the U.A.W.
The article cited quotes someone as saying that “those cars last forever” (referring to Japanese and German cars), but the article and the U.S. auto industry typically ignore this very simple claim.
U.S. automakers will provide anything: airbags, anti-lock breaks, “Onstar”, etc. But not longevity and reliability.
Their customer loyalty is in large part built, as the article’s last passage hints, on the fact that many Americans still harbor anger over world war II. But still, why not build a car to last? That is the question never answered.
Part of the problem is that the government destroys innovation and competition. American car companies have to buy foreign car parts, (in order to keep up I”m guessing) working with other companies that provide certain technology, this way they can make them better, but the problem is they still haven’t been working on making them to last long. Government is just screwing things.
This is what happens when you have number crunchers and bean counters run a company, like Mr. Nardelli from Home Depot. They forget that running a business is about the people. Repeatedly pissing off your customers is bad for business. What business transaction does not have a substantial amount of trust built in. No trust = NO repeat business.
I still can’t imagine why someone would join a union? Why take the independence out of managing your own employment matters?
banker:
Unfortunately its not often a matter of choice. Even in a right to work state, any employee who refrains from joining the Union will find themselves subjected to harassment and intimidation and will often join the Union just to be left alone. Of course, in Union shop states, you can’t even work in a Union shop at all without paying tribute to the Union. And with a Democrat majority in Congress, they will attempt to pass something called the Employee Free Choice Act, which should rightly be called the Employee No Choice Act. It will abolish NLRB elections and allow unions to certify via card check. The deal being that Unions have recently been losing a large majority of certification elections as of late. By going to card check, they eliminate the protection of anonymity provided by the secret ballot and they know which employees have not signed cards. They are thus free to pressure and intimidate them into signing. Unfortunately, if this passes, more Unions will bully themselves into existence.
My grandfather had a sixth grade education and made a living as a mechanic. He fell in love with Toyota’s in the late 1970′s when he had his first opportunity to repair one. He traded his Ford pickup for a Toyota and never bought another American-made vehicle.
But aren’t there unions in Japan and Germany too ?
Artisan, you are correct. There are unions in both Japan and Germany and on the German side they are significantly more hostile and German labor law is much tougher than US labor law. Also Japanese Labor policy is tougher than US policy.
So the solutions for the issues facing the US auto makers are far more complex than just getting rid of their unions. The unions do not help the situation either but to be fair they are not the only cause, just a big part of hampering any solution.
The real reason for any perceived or real discrepancy is simple: The US auto makers simply failed to meet customer expectations primarily on durability and fuel efficiency. Auto customers being extremely loyal went to other brands and when those expectations were satisfied the customers stayed with the new suppliers.
The US auto companies are surviving on the residual of their dominate past. People are more likely to buy your product if they have owned it in the past.
About 12 years ago, when I was a lowly post doc, I was walking through the student parking lot of Emory University and I was suddenly struck by the fact that over half the cars were of Japanese brand (Nissans, Toyotas, and Hondas). I realized right then that the US companies were doomed to ultimate second class status in the US itself.
There is no fallacy in “Buy American”. Customers have extremely wide preference ranges that can include patriotic or moral stances. The customer is always RIGHT!!!!
Besides, a series of $400 oil changes have killed any “Buy American” intentions in several friends of mine.
Artisan, the US plants of the Japanese car makers are predominantly, if not completely non-union.
Corrections. There is *not necessarily* a fallacy in “Buy American” ideas, unless it’s based upon the idea that not doing so costs Americans jobs, which it does not.
Also, the customer is not always right, although it is true that the customer is the most important person to the business.
Apart from a few niche vehicles the US manufacturers are not producing the right cars to attract customers. In some cases they are not even bothering to offer their product to customers at all.
For example, it is very difficult if not impossible to buy an American built car in New Zealand or Australia for instance (apart from some of the Chryslers like the 300 and that’s little more than a reworking of the previous version of the E-class Mercedes anyway). And I’ve seen very few US built cars in Japan or the UK. Why is that? When I ask the local representatives of the US car makers they say it is too difficult to produce cars with steering on the “wrong side of the car.” How is it that all the European and Asian manufacturers are able to build cars for any market regardless of which side the steering wheel needs to be?
US car makers have an attitude of surrender. Competition is too difficult. Better to give in and accept the inevitable.
Another interesting issue is that the US car makers face silly rules such as CAFE. The American consumer is wealthy (generally he has more wealth than his European or Japanese counterpart). The US consumer wanted a larger more luxary oriented vehicle than did people in other markets- hence Americans tended to be interested in large V-8 sedans and coupes. The imposition of CAFE rules prevented the US manufacturers from constructing cars that suited the customer base. Eventually the consumer got around that problem by purchasing BMWs and Mercedes. The less well-off and less educated consumers went for the SUVs and trucks. The US manufacturers happily produced these crude vehicles in vast numbers and hoped the market would never change. They should have put pressure on Washington to alter the CAFE or eliminate it when they had the chance (& CAFE is to be expanded and made tougher). Now the US makers have fallen behind on two generations of quality car building. They’ve been concentrating on those primitive truck things…
As Euro and Asian cars got larger and more suited to mainstream US taste, buyers started to switch over. Then with the price of gasoline increasing and the cost of running the big rigs and trucks and SUVs increasing more people checked out regular automobiles. What they found encouraged a move away from the crudity and discomfort (and danger) of truck like vehicles. The US makers offer few decent products in the segment that represents the vast majority of consumers around the World. And now they face the consequences- declining truck/SUV volumes and low take-up of their other product lines.
Toyota, as an example of doing it right (most of the time), started out building small economy cars in volume. Using ideas of quality cirles and continuous improvement they improved their cars in every aspect. They can now produce vehicles for almost every market niche. In each niche they choose to compete within they are a significant presence if not the dominant player. A decline in one segment is not as much of a problem for them as it is for an American maker, especially when people tend to stay loyal to their brand when switching vehicle type. Toyota spread the cost of R&D across a larger vehicle fleet than do the American makers (who use the money for pension funds, stock rorts, taxes and so forth). They can afford to release superior product.
Where do the US car makers end up? They will loose independence and obey what their “foreign” masters tell them to do!
Ultimately GM will become a subsidiary of Renault-Nissan. The French (and a particular Lebanese guy from Brasil) will give the orders! Most of their US factories will be closed. A few new ones will be opened in the US but mostly they’ll be off-shore. GM management will be eviscerated as will the GM blue collar workforce. Ford will downsize, exiting some market niches altogether. The company will sell off many of its divisions (Aston Martin, Jaguar, Volvo will be the first to go). In the end they’ll seek a suitor to take over. Interesting to speculate who it’ll be. Toyota? No need for them to get involved. Hyundai? Hard to see that one working out. Ssangyong? Too close to Mercedes. Who? They are in real trouble. Expect to see DCX (the old Chrysler) become more European (German) in character over time. More of the basic engineering and design function will emmigrate to Stuttgart HQ! Oh well. At least they do excellent show cars in the US from time to time.
Final comment. I remember an old soldier telling me that Japanese cars would never become big sellers in New Zealand and Australia. He said he’d never buy one until the RSA (Returned Services Assoc) parking lot had Japanese cars parked there. Within two years the RSA parking lots were full of Japanese cars. It became difficult to find non-Japanese cars there. He purchased his first Toyota a mere six months after our conversation. So some people in the US are angry at WW2? Get over it! He did!
Sione
Ja, und mein Vater fought with the Wehrmacht. Does this mean I should buy a stupid beamer?
Artisan:
Yes, there are unions in Japan. The two key differences with the US is that (1) the unions are COMPANY unions, not industry unions, so the loyalty of employees and the focus of the union always remains with the company, and on how the company is doing, and (2) with the notable except of Ghosn, all management is home-grown from the company, so management does not view itself as a special class within the company and with priorities other than the long-term competitiveness of the company. Labor-management compensation differences are miniscule compared to the US auto companies.
As a result, there is much more mutual trust between labor and management in the Japanese auto industry, and labor-managment relations are MUCH more harmonious than in the US, where each of management and labor is looking for ways to rip off the company to suit its own purposes and to screw over the other side if at all possible.
It is possible, and necessary, for the US auto industry to improve labor-management dynamics. It is too bad that management and labor lack the vision and that shareholders lack the power to engage in this type of bridge-building.
lol,
There’s no such thing as an ‘American’ car. The components, parts, materials and knowledge comes literally from everywhere.
Ulrich,
Of course not. You should buy a clever one.
Sione
i think that you guys got this one right on. the product itself is of low quality and since cars are a long term investment quality is the major factor. i do also agree that buyers buy for a variety of interests such as patriotic sentiments amongst many others. The advertising campaigns have really played this card as if buying an inferior vehicle were really in your best interest. It’s propaganda since it’s nothing more than trying to get people what they don’t want to do through some sick claim to morality.
It seems that the U.S. auto manufacturers have improved the quality of their cars:
http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/23/Autos/american_cars/index.htm
Björn Lundahl
I think it might also indicate that a good reputation can be hard to earn, once lost it will be difficult to come back.
This is a good thing as it otherwise would be more tempting for the manufacturers to reduce costs through reducing quality.
Björn Lundahl
Göteborg, Sweden
although the quality of american vehicles might have increased recently there is not yet reason to believe that they are on par with japanese or european cars. a lot of the evidence we use when buying cars is allegorical. if a friend of mine recommends his honda i take that a lot more serious than what car digest says.
C a r l o s
In Sweden we are forced by law to do yearly inspections of our cars in government run test centres (Svensk Bilprovning). They check everything which is connected to safety such as brakes, safety belts, rust (underneath) etc and they also publish statistics of the number of problems different brands and models have. Toyota is always the winner and other Japanese brands do very well too.
Yes, I agree with you and I do believe that the concept “quality†is very subjective and personally I feel that some German brands such as BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Audi etc gives a superior quality impression and quality experience than Japanese cars. I myself drive an Audi TT.
I would like to buy an Alfa Romeo but I dare not. This is a very nice car but its quality reputation is just awful. I do believe, though, that the quality has improved. I might buy one in the future.
I would think that those statistics gives an indication of quality but leaves a lot out.
Björn Lundahl
Göteborg, Sweden
Svensk Bilprovning (Swedish Car Test Centre):
http://www.bea.com/framework.jsp?CNT=svensk_bilprovning.htm&FP=/content/customers/profiles
Gentlemen
Aside from quality there is the appeal that comes from interesting design or even from the maker’s nameplate.
I once had a Jaguar XJ-12. Brilliant drive. It had an amazingly refined ride- the ride/handling compromise was the best I’ve every experienced, (probably better than anything achieved since other than certain of the Peugeots). The engine was incredible- smooth, silent, powerful (for the time). It was a beautiful car to look at as well.
….and it was utterly unreliable. What a nightmare to keep it on the road. The Poms couldn’t bolt a car together to save themselves. The electrics were Lucas (prince of darkness) rubbish. The rubber oil hoses cracked and leaked oil all over the show. The air conditioning failed. The engine rear engine main seal leaked (because the breather wasn’t large enough). The shock absorbers failed. The power steering leaked. What a complete mess. A total heap of trouble.
But when it ran, it drove better than anything else I’ve been around, before or since. It proved to me that the V-12 engine is perfection. So that car got rebuilt with German electrics, aeroquip hoses, GM compressor and Danfoss refrigeration valves in the HVAC system, etc. etc. Everything got altered. Even the Zenith carbs got replaced by Holleys. And then it was a reliable car.
So the ex-factory quality scored a big fat zero, but what an impressive design it was. Jaguar as an independent car maker no longer exists. It is merely a Ford nameplate now. They don’t do V-12s any more only a rumbly wee V-8. If only they’d got the reliability and quality right…
Conclusions:
Don’t buy low quality unless you are prepared to rebuild the car. If that’s the case you’d better really like the design.
LJK Setright recommended that every man should at least once in his life own a V-12 powered automobile. Brock Yates may have written something similar. I don’t recall. Anyway the sentiment is absolutley right! Best part is that you can get reliable German cars with V-12s now. Try one.
Sione
The excerpt did not provide any idea of just how ignorant a person has to be to believe that buying an American car makes any sense.
Why is a preference for an American-made car ignorant? I love American cars and will never buy or drive a Japanese car. Why should I? And there is nothing wrong with caring about a person’s country or fellow citizens. Further, there is nothing wrong or ignorant about remembering the sacrifices of our fathers.
For some reason people love to say, “lol there’s no such thing as an American car anymore!”
I don’t know why those people take such delight in the failure of American industry. Maybe they’re foreigners. I suspect people who say that are propagandists because it’s very easy to tell when a car is American. If it says Ford on the front, it’s American. If it says Toyota, no matter where it was made, it’s Japanese.
Some very interesting and emotional comments by many. Let’s talk some facts. By the way, I’m a life-long Detroit resident and former auto auction owner by trade. I’ve sold over a quarter million cars and trucks of all makes and models over my 20 year career. I’ve seen first hand what happens when cars are maintained, abused, wrecked, you name it.
Let’s start with the notion that American-made vehicles are unreliable. This is simply not the case. As anyone in the auto industry will tell you, a list the most reliable engines ever built would include the GM 3800 (3.8 litre) transverse V6 motor found in the former Bonneville, LeSabre, Park Avenue and Impala models. I have personally sold copies of this motor with over 300,000 miles on it. The GM 5.7 litre pushrod V8, staple for years in police cars and taxicabs, also runs forever. Ford and Chrysler have similar variants with excellent track records.
Before you start howling about Asian/European longevity, I’ll concede they make some fine motors too, particularly Toyota. Here’s the problem – many consumers perceive a foreign brand will run trouble free while an American counterpart will not. That’s simply not the case. Any American car, properly maintained, will NOT leave you stranded. For every horror story about “My Ford died” or “My GM had problems”, I point to well known defects of brand-new BMW motors blowing up with 10k miles on them due to faulty oil pressure systems or Toyota 3.0 litre V6 engines (Camry and Lexus RX300) that needed replacement due to poor oil flow and consequent oil gelling. So, the fact is, both American and foreign brands have their winners and losers.
On the topic of consumer perception, it certainly does not help that publications such as Car and Driver and Road and Track continually sing the virtues of foreign vehicles, particularly Asian models. Remember, however, that these publication cater to auto “enthusiasts” looking for that extra measure of horspower, handling, steering and style. The winners of these competitins are often more-expensive makes and models, but this fact usually gets lost in the text somewhere. Regardless, keep this in mind: Just because a Honda Civic edges other foreign and domestic models in the segment does NOT mean that the competitors are crap. Quite to the contrary, and if you need any evidence of this fact witness the large number of non-Honda Civic vehicles sold to presumably rational customers who are perfectly satisfied with their purchase. Many times it comes down to personal taste.
Here’s the most frustrating part: American car companies are cranking out world-class products and few notice or care because of consumer and media perception. If my American car isn’t quite on the cutting edge of styling and handling that’s okay; it was cheaper, just as reliable and I can smile knowing I supported the home team.
Here’s another fact: Toyota (and others) seek to dominate the world automobile market at the expense of all the other brands. Like it or not, people, we are engaged in a global economic battle with the rest of the world. When you buy an American car (Ford or GM, I’ll stay away from the Daimler Chrysler debate) the profits go to American companies, employees and stockholders. This is not the case with ANY other brand and if another person points to assembly plants in Ohio, Kentucky and Alabama run by Honda, Toyota and others, well, I’m just going to vomit. Final assembly is the lowest value-add in the entire vehicle manufacturing process and the ONLY reason the cars are being made here is because it’s the most profitable method for the competition, period. Wake up America, these foreign brands are not our friends.
That’s not to say their our enemies either. They’re competition, and free-market competition is good. It’s only served to make American car companies better. All I ask, as a native Detroiter who’s watched his local economy crumble, is for every would-be auto buyer to at least TEST DRIVE an American vehicle before making a final decision. How hard is that? Please do not believe everything you see or hear in the media and run out and blindly purchase a Honda, Toyota, whatever is in style this month without checking out what Detroit has to offer.
Oh, and by the way, one more story about my auto auction career: In 20 years of selling cars, I sold plenty of American vehicles that ran great even after 200,000+ miles. I encountered the occasional Toyota of similar age and some European brands, particularly Volvo and Mercedes, ran well with high mileage too. But I NEVER sold a BMW or Honda (yes, Honda) that ran worth a damn with over 200k miles. Could be some quirky luck on my part, but my comment is based on experience.
That’s not to say their our enemies either. They’re competition, and free-market competition is good.
But they’re not my competition. You and Ray, regardless of your experience with cars, seem completely unable to think past the collectivist box you were raised in. My purpose in buying a car is not to support people of the same arbitrary national designation as myself, but to get the most value, however I judge it, from my money.
By the way, as someone originally from the Detroit area, I can say with the confidence of familiarity that Detroit workers are no more deserving of my support than any “foreigner.” I have no more reason to feel a kinship with them, even if it mattered, than with Japanese workers.
American automakers have dramatically improved the quality of cars over what they were in the 1970′s and 1980′s. Back then, cars with 100K miles went to the scrapyard. But Japanese and German automakers have improved their products, too. I have bought a few used cars at auctions and it’s interesting to watch the price differentials of 10-year old American and Japanese cars. Honda’s and Toyota’s will sell for close to a 50% premium over comparable American cars.
The sad thing is that the Japanese learned quality from Americans. After WWII, the Japanese asked the US to send quality engineers to Japan and we sent an army of them. One was Edward Demming. The Japanese honor outstanding companies with the Demming Award. Demming didn’t have any secrets; he simply taught the same statistical process control her learned in college in the US. After his service in Japan, Demming taught college until his retirement at around 80 year of age. One night in the 1980′s, CBS’s 60-minutes aired an interview with Demming which launched his consulting career. But in the late 1990′s I saw another interview with him in which he said that Ford, GM, and Chrysler each paid him his $10,000 consulting fee and then went back to business as usual. The Japanese auto makers, Demming, and an army of other consultants have been telling Detroit that their problem is quality for over 40 years. They refuse to listen.
Paul is right that Americans make very good engines, but everything else on the car will fall apart after 100k. Fords have particularly bad transmissions.
Sorry folks, I decided to buy U.S. and began by purchasing a Ford Focus to replace my Acura in 2006. I DO NOT regret the decision and my Focus has been great. Subsequently, I purchased 2 additional Ford Focus’s for teen aged kids – 2002 and 2006. Also great cars through this date July 14, 2008.
The proof of longevity is yet to come but my Fords are as good as their direct Asian or Euro made competition, to date.
I am an ADAMANT supporter of buy american. And I can agree, for an amount of time, the product did have it’s bugs and GM and Ford faltered to make their “small car lines” work, and to this day I believe that Chrystler need to just go bankrupt and go away, because I have never in my 39 years of existance seen a Jeep product NOT have severe mechanical problems, found a Dodge Ram that could survive more than 100k before not starting up properly or having tow power problems, but in recent years the strives that Ford and GM have made to create cars that are affordable in todays market, and have longevity.
And as far as the Truck thing goes, Toyota may sell more Tundras than Ford can move F-150′s, but those cars will physically fall apart on you in a year if it’s a work truck, trust me I KNOW. I have a old Ford F-150 from 2001, that still runs as tough as the day I bought it, and can actually stand up to the daily drudgery of construction work. They didn’t get the monicker ‘Built Ford Tough’ making crappy trucks.
I will always be a supporter of buying American Made automobiles (and I don’t mean the Nissans that come out of the plant in Knoxville, Tenn, I mean OUR American companies.), and you guys should check out one of my other favorite blog spots at http://www.AmericanBoom.com/blog. There’s a ton more about supporting American-Made, it’s pretty informative.
There was a joke circulating years ago that you never wanted to buy an American car assembled on Monday because everyone was hung over, on Friday because everyone was looking forward to the weekend, and on Wednesday because, I guess it was Wednesday but I never heard that said of foreign manufacturers. The fact is that American made cars have been perceived as having a problem but Americans now make reliable cars you can depend on. If you don’t believe me, just stop me sometime in my Chevy Suburban with almost 300,000 miles on it. I think its time to give American cars another look and evaluate them fairly. Another great blog I read often is Americanboom.com/blog
Buying American is good for our economy. There are some great American companies with some great products. Visit americanboom.com for profiles of some of these great companies.
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