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	<title>Comments on: War as Spoliation</title>
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	<link>http://archive.mises.org/4491/war-as-spoliation/</link>
	<description>Proceeding Ever More Boldly Against Evil</description>
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		<title>By: Skip</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/4491/war-as-spoliation/comment-page-1/#comment-34835</link>
		<dc:creator>Skip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jan 2006 04:31:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/004491.asp#comment-34835</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I do not beleive F. Bastiat ever had any use for insurance. Insurance like the need for self defense.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not beleive F. Bastiat ever had any use for insurance. Insurance like the need for self defense.</p>
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		<title>By: Curt Howland</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/4491/war-as-spoliation/comment-page-1/#comment-32180</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt Howland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Dec 2005 02:24:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/004491.asp#comment-32180</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steamship, &lt;i&gt;&quot;Hippie talk. This is ultimately a meaningless statement.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
Insulting and hypocritical. I&#039;m sorry I complemented you at all. My mistake, I will not make it again.
&lt;br&gt;
Brett, &lt;i&gt;&quot;What people need to see from libertarians/anarchists is their plan to tackle islamic terrorism&quot;&lt;/i&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
Done, many times. &quot;Terrorism&quot; is a political label for a violent crime. Since it is a crime, treat it as such.
&lt;br&gt;
You don&#039;t even have to go to &quot;libertarians/Anarchists&quot; to find this answer. Go rent _Wanted: Dead Or Alive_ with Rutger Hauer and Gene Simmons.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steamship, <i>&#8220;Hippie talk. This is ultimately a meaningless statement.&#8221;</i><br />
<br />
Insulting and hypocritical. I&#8217;m sorry I complemented you at all. My mistake, I will not make it again.<br />
<br />
Brett, <i>&#8220;What people need to see from libertarians/anarchists is their plan to tackle islamic terrorism&#8221;</i><br />
<br />
Done, many times. &#8220;Terrorism&#8221; is a political label for a violent crime. Since it is a crime, treat it as such.<br />
<br />
You don&#8217;t even have to go to &#8220;libertarians/Anarchists&#8221; to find this answer. Go rent _Wanted: Dead Or Alive_ with Rutger Hauer and Gene Simmons.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: quincunx5</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/4491/war-as-spoliation/comment-page-1/#comment-32069</link>
		<dc:creator>quincunx5</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2005 17:27:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/004491.asp#comment-32069</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I just can&#039;t stand this constant sniping from the sidelines against people who are at least trying to tackle real, difficult issues, rather than wish them all away.&quot;

Merely &quot;tackling real difficult issues&quot; any old way does not help, but in fact hinders.  

The attackers of 9/11 were stiking out against our wealth and prosperity - very much the same way that the federal government stikes out against wealth and properity.  The terrorist&#039;s action was compressed into an instant - where as the action of the government is spread out over time.

The money put into the unnecessary war could have been used to built several new world trade centers in almost every big US city (not that I support that either).  

Do you honestly believe that war will solve terrorism? or is it more likey to raise a whole generation of father-less sons who will seek vengence?

I think strategic thinking is the best way to achieve the desired goal.  There is a bounty on Osama, but no one (including US muslims) are willing to risk their life trying to infiltrate terrorist networks, if they can easily be exposed and captured by our own troops.

Even if you disagree with the above, you may still contend that that should have been tried first!  Most thinking people test the bath water first, and then get in.

I&#039;m not even going into the fact that the government has supported the terrorists in the past.

Curiously, why do you think our action is proper, and will actually achieve its objective?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I just can&#8217;t stand this constant sniping from the sidelines against people who are at least trying to tackle real, difficult issues, rather than wish them all away.&#8221;</p>
<p>Merely &#8220;tackling real difficult issues&#8221; any old way does not help, but in fact hinders.  </p>
<p>The attackers of 9/11 were stiking out against our wealth and prosperity &#8211; very much the same way that the federal government stikes out against wealth and properity.  The terrorist&#8217;s action was compressed into an instant &#8211; where as the action of the government is spread out over time.</p>
<p>The money put into the unnecessary war could have been used to built several new world trade centers in almost every big US city (not that I support that either).  </p>
<p>Do you honestly believe that war will solve terrorism? or is it more likey to raise a whole generation of father-less sons who will seek vengence?</p>
<p>I think strategic thinking is the best way to achieve the desired goal.  There is a bounty on Osama, but no one (including US muslims) are willing to risk their life trying to infiltrate terrorist networks, if they can easily be exposed and captured by our own troops.</p>
<p>Even if you disagree with the above, you may still contend that that should have been tried first!  Most thinking people test the bath water first, and then get in.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not even going into the fact that the government has supported the terrorists in the past.</p>
<p>Curiously, why do you think our action is proper, and will actually achieve its objective?</p>
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		<title>By: Brett_McS</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/4491/war-as-spoliation/comment-page-1/#comment-32067</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett_McS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2005 16:34:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/004491.asp#comment-32067</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, &quot;College was a long time ago..&quot; means &quot;the time of irresponsible adolescence (I know, I was there) has passed&quot;; the time when theory was more important than the real world.

Heh, I&#039;m a subscriber to Von Mises report also, I just can&#039;t stand this constant sniping from the sidelines against people who are at least trying to tackle real, difficult issues, rather than wish them all away.  It is not helping us (I mean me and you), and it is not helping anyone but the enemies of civilization.  Let&#039;s try to be less tribal!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, &#8220;College was a long time ago..&#8221; means &#8220;the time of irresponsible adolescence (I know, I was there) has passed&#8221;; the time when theory was more important than the real world.</p>
<p>Heh, I&#8217;m a subscriber to Von Mises report also, I just can&#8217;t stand this constant sniping from the sidelines against people who are at least trying to tackle real, difficult issues, rather than wish them all away.  It is not helping us (I mean me and you), and it is not helping anyone but the enemies of civilization.  Let&#8217;s try to be less tribal!</p>
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		<title>By: Brett_McS</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/4491/war-as-spoliation/comment-page-1/#comment-32066</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett_McS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2005 16:19:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/004491.asp#comment-32066</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[quincunx5, that&#039;s the spirit!  That is a good plan.  Now how about one for the world we have now?  You know, the world before we actually achieve libertarian nirvana, the world in which George Bush and the rest of us actually have to operate?  Sorry for the intrusion into the perfect world.  I&#039;ll wipe my feet next time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>quincunx5, that&#8217;s the spirit!  That is a good plan.  Now how about one for the world we have now?  You know, the world before we actually achieve libertarian nirvana, the world in which George Bush and the rest of us actually have to operate?  Sorry for the intrusion into the perfect world.  I&#8217;ll wipe my feet next time.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: quincunx5</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/4491/war-as-spoliation/comment-page-1/#comment-32049</link>
		<dc:creator>quincunx5</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2005 15:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/004491.asp#comment-32049</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Brett, 

&quot;College was a long time ago for most of you.&quot;

Considering that colleges are a hot bed of statism, I do not see how this makes sense.

&quot;What people need to see from libertarians/anarchists is their plan to tackle islamic terrorism (as a topical example). Be warned: your plan would then be subject to criticism and may be made a laughing stock, but at least you would have a chance at being taken seriously. &quot;

How about stop intruding?
Keep the bounty on the terrorists let private bounty hunters compete for the prize.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brett, </p>
<p>&#8220;College was a long time ago for most of you.&#8221;</p>
<p>Considering that colleges are a hot bed of statism, I do not see how this makes sense.</p>
<p>&#8220;What people need to see from libertarians/anarchists is their plan to tackle islamic terrorism (as a topical example). Be warned: your plan would then be subject to criticism and may be made a laughing stock, but at least you would have a chance at being taken seriously. &#8221;</p>
<p>How about stop intruding?<br />
Keep the bounty on the terrorists let private bounty hunters compete for the prize.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Evans M</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/4491/war-as-spoliation/comment-page-1/#comment-32019</link>
		<dc:creator>Evans M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2005 13:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/004491.asp#comment-32019</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;With a republican government and rule of law, the Iraqis will have secure property rights.&quot;

Roger M, 
Respect for property rights does not emerge from the mythical&#039; rule of Law&#039; or republican government&#039; nor still from some contents of some human-made Constitution; but rather from valuable traditions that recognise that respect for other people&#039;s property is in fact a safeguard for one&#039;s own property.  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;With a republican government and rule of law, the Iraqis will have secure property rights.&#8221;</p>
<p>Roger M,<br />
Respect for property rights does not emerge from the mythical&#8217; rule of Law&#8217; or republican government&#8217; nor still from some contents of some human-made Constitution; but rather from valuable traditions that recognise that respect for other people&#8217;s property is in fact a safeguard for one&#8217;s own property.  </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Brett_McS</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/4491/war-as-spoliation/comment-page-1/#comment-32018</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett_McS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2005 13:15:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/004491.asp#comment-32018</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What people need to see from libertarians/anarchists is their plan to tackle islamic terrorism (as a topical example).  Be warned: your plan would then be subject to criticism and may be made a laughing stock, but at least you would have a chance at being taken seriously. 

I know you love to live in a little self-supporting, purist tribe, so to remain isolated and ineffectual is perhaps no threat, but, come on, you have to grow up some time.  College was a long time ago for most of you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What people need to see from libertarians/anarchists is their plan to tackle islamic terrorism (as a topical example).  Be warned: your plan would then be subject to criticism and may be made a laughing stock, but at least you would have a chance at being taken seriously. </p>
<p>I know you love to live in a little self-supporting, purist tribe, so to remain isolated and ineffectual is perhaps no threat, but, come on, you have to grow up some time.  College was a long time ago for most of you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: SteamshipTime</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/4491/war-as-spoliation/comment-page-1/#comment-31961</link>
		<dc:creator>SteamshipTime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2005 07:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/004491.asp#comment-31961</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;It follows that the only moral position possible is one where people are left to follow their own paths unmolested.&quot;

Hippie talk.  This is ultimately a meaningless statement.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It follows that the only moral position possible is one where people are left to follow their own paths unmolested.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hippie talk.  This is ultimately a meaningless statement.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Curt Howland</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/4491/war-as-spoliation/comment-page-1/#comment-31960</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt Howland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2005 07:05:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/004491.asp#comment-31960</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steamship, it&#039;s comforting to find myself agreeing with your position.
&lt;br&gt;
This reinforces the idea that everyone holds something in their lives that they believe government must not infringe upon. The essence of Liberty is recognizing that no only is everyone&#039;s sacred thing different, it is also no less valid than anyone else&#039;s.
&lt;br&gt;
It follows that the only moral position possible is one where people are left to follow their own paths unmolested.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steamship, it&#8217;s comforting to find myself agreeing with your position.<br />
<br />
This reinforces the idea that everyone holds something in their lives that they believe government must not infringe upon. The essence of Liberty is recognizing that no only is everyone&#8217;s sacred thing different, it is also no less valid than anyone else&#8217;s.<br />
<br />
It follows that the only moral position possible is one where people are left to follow their own paths unmolested.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: SteamshipTime</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/4491/war-as-spoliation/comment-page-1/#comment-31955</link>
		<dc:creator>SteamshipTime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2005 05:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/004491.asp#comment-31955</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Roger M,

Why should I give a s*** about Iraqis?  More specifically, why should I give $6B/mo. worth of a s*** about them?

In terms of realpolitik, we traded a secular Sunni dictatorship that allowed Christian and even Jewish worship for a bunch of Shi&#039;ite and Kurdish rabble who are going to live off US foreign aid for the next century.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger M,</p>
<p>Why should I give a s*** about Iraqis?  More specifically, why should I give $6B/mo. worth of a s*** about them?</p>
<p>In terms of realpolitik, we traded a secular Sunni dictatorship that allowed Christian and even Jewish worship for a bunch of Shi&#8217;ite and Kurdish rabble who are going to live off US foreign aid for the next century.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Alex MacMillan</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/4491/war-as-spoliation/comment-page-1/#comment-31953</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex MacMillan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2005 05:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/004491.asp#comment-31953</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Darn, didn&#039;t preview my post. Exchange first &quot;h&quot; for a &quot;z&quot; in Czechoslovakia.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darn, didn&#8217;t preview my post. Exchange first &#8220;h&#8221; for a &#8220;z&#8221; in Czechoslovakia.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Alex MacMillan</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/4491/war-as-spoliation/comment-page-1/#comment-31952</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex MacMillan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2005 05:26:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/004491.asp#comment-31952</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As I understand it in reading these comments, and I certainly may have it wrong, there are those who would argue that the British should not have entered the Second World War against Germany in 1939 merely because Germany had invaded Chechoslovakia and Poland. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I understand it in reading these comments, and I certainly may have it wrong, there are those who would argue that the British should not have entered the Second World War against Germany in 1939 merely because Germany had invaded Chechoslovakia and Poland. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: P.M.Lawrence</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/4491/war-as-spoliation/comment-page-1/#comment-31937</link>
		<dc:creator>P.M.Lawrence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2005 01:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/004491.asp#comment-31937</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, Roger M! you show that you lack some of the basic context to make sense of the range of things Bastiat was considering.

In the (French) Revolutionary Wars at the end of the 18th century, and then again in North Africa in the 19th century - a conquest Bastiat also covered - France had applied indirect means of looting and wealth transference via currency manipulation, basically the same thing countries do to themselves via inflation these days.

So, Bastiat was well aware of these indirect methods and was not ruling them out. The USA &lt;I&gt;has&lt;/I&gt; applied these techniques, quite widely; it is no exception to the idea of indirect looting that Bastiat also knew about.

Perhaps a specific example of US invasion would help illustrate things: Panama. The USA has (indirectly) got far more out of that than it ever put in. And that is not an isolated example.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, Roger M! you show that you lack some of the basic context to make sense of the range of things Bastiat was considering.</p>
<p>In the (French) Revolutionary Wars at the end of the 18th century, and then again in North Africa in the 19th century &#8211; a conquest Bastiat also covered &#8211; France had applied indirect means of looting and wealth transference via currency manipulation, basically the same thing countries do to themselves via inflation these days.</p>
<p>So, Bastiat was well aware of these indirect methods and was not ruling them out. The USA <i>has</i> applied these techniques, quite widely; it is no exception to the idea of indirect looting that Bastiat also knew about.</p>
<p>Perhaps a specific example of US invasion would help illustrate things: Panama. The USA has (indirectly) got far more out of that than it ever put in. And that is not an isolated example.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: P.M.Lawrence</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/4491/war-as-spoliation/comment-page-1/#comment-31929</link>
		<dc:creator>P.M.Lawrence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2005 21:38:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/004491.asp#comment-31929</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, Roger M! you show that you lack some of the basic context to make sense of the range of things Bastiat was considering.

In the (French) Revolutionary Wars at the end of the 18th century, and then again in North Africa in the 19th century - a conquest Bastiat also covered - France had applied indirect means of looting and wealth transference via currency manipulation, basically the same thing countries do to themselves via inflation these days.

So, Bastiat was well aware of these indirect methods and was not ruling them out. The USA &lt;I&gt;has&lt;/I&gt; applied these techniques, quite widely; it is no exception to the idea of indirect looting that Bastiat also knew about.
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, Roger M! you show that you lack some of the basic context to make sense of the range of things Bastiat was considering.</p>
<p>In the (French) Revolutionary Wars at the end of the 18th century, and then again in North Africa in the 19th century &#8211; a conquest Bastiat also covered &#8211; France had applied indirect means of looting and wealth transference via currency manipulation, basically the same thing countries do to themselves via inflation these days.</p>
<p>So, Bastiat was well aware of these indirect methods and was not ruling them out. The USA <i>has</i> applied these techniques, quite widely; it is no exception to the idea of indirect looting that Bastiat also knew about.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Don Beezley</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/4491/war-as-spoliation/comment-page-1/#comment-31915</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Beezley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2005 18:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/004491.asp#comment-31915</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The war in Iraq is a perfect manifestation of G W Bushes Leftist/Altruist leanings--in contravention of both the word and spirt of the Constitution.  The principles in the Declaration are fundamentally based on self interest--My life, My (right to) liberty, My priorites/values (&quot;Happiness&quot;) as determined by and for Me.  The Constitution, relatively speaking in the history of Man, made a valient, though obviously flawed (based on the continuning, deteriorating outcome) attempt to codify this ideal into the governing principles of the US.  The only appropriate foreign policy that can confer any legitimacy (as Jefferson noted) for a government of a &quot;sovereign nation &quot; is one that serves these self interested principles: essentially, deflecting aggressors (internal or external) who would seek to violate these principles.   The Constitution provides for the defence of the UNITED STATES, not Iraq. Iraq was not an agressor against the United States (though the US was an agressor against Iraq).  Sacrificing Americans (by getting them killed on the battlefield or stealing resources from them to fight it) in defense of a country that is not their own is both a violation of law and morally reprehensible, although quite altruistic. A pro war/save the Iraqis friend asked me, &quot;wouldn&#039;t you intervene if you saw a woman being raped&quot;?  Yes I would, is the answer--but it&#039;s MY decision with MY life in accordance with MY values to do so.  The government has no right to COMPEL me to do so.  Whether the Iraqis are better off or not is irrelevant (though I suspect they may be; whether they are better off or worse off, the end neither justifies nor delegitimizes the means.

If the last twenty years saw aggressive engagement through trade; no invasions; no stationing of military bases in the middle east; and no subisidies to the various corrupt governments, we would not be involved in the government&#039;s latest war--the one on terror.

Is this a blame America first theory? No. &quot;America&quot; is not its government, America is the good men and women who get up every day and go to work, or take care of their kids or live otherwise peaceful, productive lives, in spite of this appendage that is attached to them and calls itself &quot;government.&quot;  Most of us are held accountable for our lives and actions every day.  Government is never held accoutnable.

In the last thousand years, I would suspect that 99.9% of human beings killed intentionally at the hands of other human beings have been killed at the behest of governments.  All philosophy aside, perhaps it&#039;s time to try a little less government.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The war in Iraq is a perfect manifestation of G W Bushes Leftist/Altruist leanings&#8211;in contravention of both the word and spirt of the Constitution.  The principles in the Declaration are fundamentally based on self interest&#8211;My life, My (right to) liberty, My priorites/values (&#8220;Happiness&#8221;) as determined by and for Me.  The Constitution, relatively speaking in the history of Man, made a valient, though obviously flawed (based on the continuning, deteriorating outcome) attempt to codify this ideal into the governing principles of the US.  The only appropriate foreign policy that can confer any legitimacy (as Jefferson noted) for a government of a &#8220;sovereign nation &#8221; is one that serves these self interested principles: essentially, deflecting aggressors (internal or external) who would seek to violate these principles.   The Constitution provides for the defence of the UNITED STATES, not Iraq. Iraq was not an agressor against the United States (though the US was an agressor against Iraq).  Sacrificing Americans (by getting them killed on the battlefield or stealing resources from them to fight it) in defense of a country that is not their own is both a violation of law and morally reprehensible, although quite altruistic. A pro war/save the Iraqis friend asked me, &#8220;wouldn&#8217;t you intervene if you saw a woman being raped&#8221;?  Yes I would, is the answer&#8211;but it&#8217;s MY decision with MY life in accordance with MY values to do so.  The government has no right to COMPEL me to do so.  Whether the Iraqis are better off or not is irrelevant (though I suspect they may be; whether they are better off or worse off, the end neither justifies nor delegitimizes the means.</p>
<p>If the last twenty years saw aggressive engagement through trade; no invasions; no stationing of military bases in the middle east; and no subisidies to the various corrupt governments, we would not be involved in the government&#8217;s latest war&#8211;the one on terror.</p>
<p>Is this a blame America first theory? No. &#8220;America&#8221; is not its government, America is the good men and women who get up every day and go to work, or take care of their kids or live otherwise peaceful, productive lives, in spite of this appendage that is attached to them and calls itself &#8220;government.&#8221;  Most of us are held accountable for our lives and actions every day.  Government is never held accoutnable.</p>
<p>In the last thousand years, I would suspect that 99.9% of human beings killed intentionally at the hands of other human beings have been killed at the behest of governments.  All philosophy aside, perhaps it&#8217;s time to try a little less government.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: salome</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/4491/war-as-spoliation/comment-page-1/#comment-31842</link>
		<dc:creator>salome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2005 14:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/004491.asp#comment-31842</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[geeeee whiz---war is good for nothing and solves nothing.
let&#039;s try communism again
or hitler&#039;s germany.
pol pot&#039;s a little more recent but for some reason our elite teaching establishment doesn&#039;t get into him at all.....
how many millions murdered ?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>geeeee whiz&#8212;war is good for nothing and solves nothing.<br />
let&#8217;s try communism again<br />
or hitler&#8217;s germany.<br />
pol pot&#8217;s a little more recent but for some reason our elite teaching establishment doesn&#8217;t get into him at all&#8230;..<br />
how many millions murdered ?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Curt Howland</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/4491/war-as-spoliation/comment-page-1/#comment-31822</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt Howland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2005 13:15:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/004491.asp#comment-31822</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Roger, since you&#039;re posting here I can assume you&#039;re not fighting. That&#039;s hypocrisy.
&lt;br&gt;
You are correct, &lt;i&gt;&quot;The value of what we have given Iraq is incalculable.&quot;&lt;/i&gt; The war dead number in the hundreds of thousands, millions before that in the 10 years of active economic and infrastructure destruction deliberately perpetrated by the US, there is no way to calculate the loss.
&lt;br&gt;
Beyond the revulsion I feel for your hypocrisy, the fact that you think the awful condition of the Iraqi economy was some kind of natural phenomena demonstrates a profound ignorance of a decade of continuous military intervention and restriction of trade imposed by the US against Iraq.
&lt;br&gt;
If you bother to read this, I suggest you do a search for &quot;assassination politics&quot;. Rather than indulging in your paranoia that everyone against aggressive war is somehow in favor of &quot;tyranny&quot;, examine alternatives to killing innocent people in bombings and invasion. It is aggressive war I am against, because it is the ultimate in government intervention and as such never has the benefits that it is rationalized to have.
&lt;br&gt;
If the real purpose had ever been simply eliminating Saddam, simple assassination would have eliminated the deaths of innocents. And before you try to argue the immorality of assassination, you&#039;ve already argued the morality of open war, how you are in favor of killing of many thousands of people who not only never threatened you but never *could* have threatened you.
&lt;br&gt;
The only reason it&#039;s not murder is because governments do it. Oh, wait, that&#039;s the Nuremburg Defense! People were hanged for following orders! That&#039;s why Saddam is on trial for his life right now, even though he acted as &quot;government&quot; doing everything that the American government is doing.
&lt;br&gt;
But both Saddam and the Germans were on the losing side, and it&#039;s easy to punish the losers for whatever the winners want.
&lt;br&gt;
I would be very pleased if the American government officials were held to the same standard. Very pleased indeed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger, since you&#8217;re posting here I can assume you&#8217;re not fighting. That&#8217;s hypocrisy.<br />
<br />
You are correct, <i>&#8220;The value of what we have given Iraq is incalculable.&#8221;</i> The war dead number in the hundreds of thousands, millions before that in the 10 years of active economic and infrastructure destruction deliberately perpetrated by the US, there is no way to calculate the loss.<br />
<br />
Beyond the revulsion I feel for your hypocrisy, the fact that you think the awful condition of the Iraqi economy was some kind of natural phenomena demonstrates a profound ignorance of a decade of continuous military intervention and restriction of trade imposed by the US against Iraq.<br />
<br />
If you bother to read this, I suggest you do a search for &#8220;assassination politics&#8221;. Rather than indulging in your paranoia that everyone against aggressive war is somehow in favor of &#8220;tyranny&#8221;, examine alternatives to killing innocent people in bombings and invasion. It is aggressive war I am against, because it is the ultimate in government intervention and as such never has the benefits that it is rationalized to have.<br />
<br />
If the real purpose had ever been simply eliminating Saddam, simple assassination would have eliminated the deaths of innocents. And before you try to argue the immorality of assassination, you&#8217;ve already argued the morality of open war, how you are in favor of killing of many thousands of people who not only never threatened you but never *could* have threatened you.<br />
<br />
The only reason it&#8217;s not murder is because governments do it. Oh, wait, that&#8217;s the Nuremburg Defense! People were hanged for following orders! That&#8217;s why Saddam is on trial for his life right now, even though he acted as &#8220;government&#8221; doing everything that the American government is doing.<br />
<br />
But both Saddam and the Germans were on the losing side, and it&#8217;s easy to punish the losers for whatever the winners want.<br />
<br />
I would be very pleased if the American government officials were held to the same standard. Very pleased indeed.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: MLS</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/4491/war-as-spoliation/comment-page-1/#comment-31818</link>
		<dc:creator>MLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/004491.asp#comment-31818</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot; I suppose you would have let Saddam Hussein steal, rape and pillage at will, not only his own country, but neighbors as well? What a convenient morality! As long as you don&#039;t see the evil, it&#039;s OK!&quot;

I suppose you like it when George Bush, et al. steal, rape and pillage at will, not only his own country, but distant ones as well? 

As long as you see AND pay for the evil, it&#039;s OK!  Now that&#039;s a convenient morality!
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; I suppose you would have let Saddam Hussein steal, rape and pillage at will, not only his own country, but neighbors as well? What a convenient morality! As long as you don&#8217;t see the evil, it&#8217;s OK!&#8221;</p>
<p>I suppose you like it when George Bush, et al. steal, rape and pillage at will, not only his own country, but distant ones as well? </p>
<p>As long as you see AND pay for the evil, it&#8217;s OK!  Now that&#8217;s a convenient morality!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: averros</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/4491/war-as-spoliation/comment-page-1/#comment-31817</link>
		<dc:creator>averros</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:28:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/004491.asp#comment-31817</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Roger M wrote:
&lt;p&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Which demonstrates the uniqueness of the US. For rather than steal from those we conquered, we have spent billions to restore them.&lt;/i&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
Which demonstrates the total lack of comprehension of what the war is about: the governments wage &quot;liberation&quot; wars not against some remote dictators, but against their homeland populations.  These wars are mere means to extort more money from scared sheepie by making them feel good about being mighty and invincible. Meanwhile, government spends some minor share of the loot on the visible &quot;good works&quot;, and its cronies pocket the rest.
&lt;p&gt;
US is only unique in the hold the swindler&#039;s rhetoric has on its population, I guess. In most other places governments are trusted far less, which limits belligerence of these governments.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger M wrote:</p>
<p>
<i>Which demonstrates the uniqueness of the US. For rather than steal from those we conquered, we have spent billions to restore them.</i>
</p>
<p>
Which demonstrates the total lack of comprehension of what the war is about: the governments wage &#8220;liberation&#8221; wars not against some remote dictators, but against their homeland populations.  These wars are mere means to extort more money from scared sheepie by making them feel good about being mighty and invincible. Meanwhile, government spends some minor share of the loot on the visible &#8220;good works&#8221;, and its cronies pocket the rest.
</p>
<p>
US is only unique in the hold the swindler&#8217;s rhetoric has on its population, I guess. In most other places governments are trusted far less, which limits belligerence of these governments.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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