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Source link: http://archive.mises.org/2453/of-course-investors-can-beat-the-market/

Of Course Investors Can Beat the Market

September 8, 2004 by

Speculating in the stock market is a very popular activity. Millions of people do it regularly, and hundreds of millions of people around the world hire fund managers to let others trade for them. Yet, according to some economists, these people are just wasting their time. Sure, some of them might be lucky and earn a lot. But just as many will lose because of their trading activity. Stock market trading is, according to this theory, nothing but a form of gambling. [Full article]

{ 33 comments }

Dirk Friedrich September 8, 2004 at 10:17 am

Moreover, EMH ignores the effects of insufficient liquidity on the markets

Can a market with insufficient liquidity be an efficient market? I thought EMH would not apply to illiquid markets. IIRC liquidity is an assumption of EMH.

best,
Dirk Friedrich

Ernst Janensch September 8, 2004 at 1:21 pm

I enjoyed this article, but I disagree with the conclusion that “it would be just as well for them to put their money in an index fund.” The problem is that the average investor — who has a job, a family, a social life, hobbies, house chores, etc. — has no time to devlop “superior abilities” at stock-picking and no rational way of choosing which fund manager will be one of the managers who has “superior abilities” (or luck) and outperforms the market average. It has long been proven that a manager’s past performance has zero correlation with his future performance. Since there’s no way to know which manager will exhibit “superior abilities” (or get lucky), the only rational choice is to invest in an index fund. So it wouldn’t be “just as well” to invest in index funds, as the author says. Rather, investing in index funds is the only rational choice.

R Wahl September 8, 2004 at 1:49 pm

Why do Karlsson and other Misesians ignore the massive fraud involved in the selling of things not owned. Fractional reserve banking and selling stocks short are examples. Selling a commodity forward is not fraud if one has inventory or a capability of producing the thing sold forward. Otherwise it is fraud. Loaning out cash not on deposit is well and good only if all depositor funds are backed up by certfiable wealth of the bank owners. Just because something fraudulent has been allowed for a long time is no justification for its practice and the resulting harm we suffer today by its use.

Jeff Lonsdale September 8, 2004 at 2:07 pm

Janensch, your theory sounds like this to me:
Assume a person has no time to keep track of the market on their own. Assume the only way a person can pick fund managers is by their past returns. This method doesn’t work – Therefore, investing in an index is the only rational choice.

However, a person does have some time to devote to investing – and if they are right in the trends they chose they will do well. Were market indices in early 2000 pricing in Austrian Business Cycle Theory? They can easily pick fund managers (or their own stocks) which have the same asymmetrical information the person has. Saying that indices are the only rational choice is making assumptions which are as bogus as many of those in EMH.

Selling stocks short isn’t necessarily fraud. The fraud exists only so much as the people who purchase stocks held in the brokerage house’s name for them don’t know that their stock is being lent out to be sold short and would disagree with that lending. The more people are informed about the situation, the less it is fraud. If someone finds our about it and doesn’t like it they can register the stock to their names and the problem is solved.
The same argument can be made for deposit funds. If people realized and agreed that their deposits weren’t actually deposits but were conditional deposits then a lot of the fraud in fractional reserve banking would disappear.

Sam Bostaph September 8, 2004 at 2:14 pm

Excellent article by Stefan Karlsson. I eliminated A RANDOM WALK from the course readings of my section of Fundamentals of Finance because the main thesis is nonsensical for the reasons Karlsson gives.

Duodecimal September 8, 2004 at 2:36 pm

Index funds also aren’t the ‘only rational investment’ when entering a secular bear market.

Which is probably now. Considering stock prices after the prior 2 decades of secular bull conditions, the probability of a painful/prolonged credit contraction, plus the net debtor position and the absence of savings for capital formation in most markets… the prospects of any prolonged rise in stock indices for the next decade or two are grim.

In fact, dumping money into stocks, whether via mutual funds or the indices, is likely a singularly bad idea at this point in the cycle. I bet the only way a stock price index can possibly show positive change over the next twenty-odd years is through a decline in currency value (netting zero or negative return, therefore, when adjusting for inflation).

So as far as my estimation of opportunity costs go, I’m avoiding paper assets. Don’t quite have the stomach or heart to play along with the greater fools.

Christopher K. Thomas September 8, 2004 at 3:21 pm

On the home page of our web site there is this statement:
“The Stock Market is NOT highly efficient. Some people know more than others.”

We have shown on very many occasions [some illustrated on our site] that common stock prices exhibit deviant behaviour when persons various are using information that is not common knowledge.
So much for the EMH – and that goes for Random Walk too.

“Of Course Investors Can Beat the Market” and some of those that do so are making use of our Early Warning Service.

Keep up the good work!
C….

D. Saul Weiner September 8, 2004 at 3:25 pm

Duodecimal raises a good point about Bear markets. In fact, conventional finance theory (e.g. Random Walk) does not recognize that markets do in fact trend at times. Admittedly, trends may or may not persist, but some of the great trend followers achieve extraordinary returns over long periods of time by taking advantage of this tendency of markets to trend.

Ernst Janensch September 8, 2004 at 8:18 pm

Lonsdale, please do your fellow Miseans the favor of posting the exact methodology for “easily pick[ing] managers (or their own stocks)”!!! Also, please provide empirical evidence that your methodology has proven to outperform the index. If any stock-picking or manager-picking methodology were proven to work, its creator would either keep it secret and make millions or reveal it and we would all know about it. Meanwhile, unless and until someone comes up with a proven methodology for picking stocks or fund managers that outperform the index, the only rational investment choice is the index fund.

Duodecimal, by “only rational choice” I simply meant the choice between index fund vs. active manager, not the choice between index funds vs. all other types of investments. The decision to invest in an index fund presupposes that one has decided to invest in the stock market rather than gold, real estate, or other equities. If one thinks we’re in for a long-term bear market, then one does not even reach the question at issue: index fund vs. trying to figure out a methodology for picking stocks or managers.

Mike Bayer September 8, 2004 at 9:59 pm

Karlsson is correct in suggesting that some managers will be able to beat the market.

The Efficient Market Hypothesis says that market prices are fair: they fully reflect all available information. This does not mean that prices are perfect; some prices may be too high and some too low, but there is no reliable way to tell. In an efficient market, investors cannot expect to earn above-average profits without assuming above-average risks. Market efficiency does not suggest that investors can’t “win.” Over any period of time, some investors will beat the market, but over longer periods the number of investors who do so will likely be no greater than expected by chance.

You can find a number of useful academic articles regarding EMT at this link.

http://library.dfaus.com/articles/

Lawrence September 9, 2004 at 10:26 am

“Over any period of time, some investors will beat the market, but over longer periods the number of investors who do so will likely be no greater than expected by chance.”

This may be true but this is not the same thing as saying that the investors who do outperform over the long term have done so by chance. The former statement may be true while the latter may be false (as I suspect it is). For example SAT scores may roughly follow a normal (chance) distribution but those who do get significantly above-median scores generally do not do so by chance : they may have superior education, or superior mental capacities, or simply be better prepared for the test.

My next remark is that investing in an index fund is as much an “active” decision as selecting a fund manager : investing in an index means, first, deciding to invest in shares rather than in other asset classes, then deciding not to invest time in finding the right fund manager, then picking an index (or a basket of indexes) among the hundreds available, then deciding when and how how much money to invest,etc. In that sense, investing in an index is a priori no more or no less rational than selecting a fund manager.

A final thought : try to imagine a world where every investor would invest in index funds. This would likely render markets (and, consequently, the economy) highly inefficient, irrational and unstable, as funds would flow to companies according to current market cap rather than according to expected performance (in particular, the companies not represented in an index would get no funds!). Fortunately there are still investors who look for companies with the best prospects to invest in!

Jardinero1 September 9, 2004 at 11:14 am

Back to the fraud comments and short selling. In the US, every investor with a margin account signs an agreement allowing their shares to be loaned to the short seller. Only shares from margin accounts are loaned to short sellers. No fraud, it is a mutually agreed upon contract. The investor is granted a line of credit and the firm obtains use of the shares for the short seller.

Peter Gustavus September 9, 2004 at 1:44 pm

The EMH doesn’t maintain there will be no money left in the street. It says that the probability is sufficiently low that the returns will not repay the effort needed to systematically go around looking for it. You can see that this is in fact true. That is, it is true that easy pickings do attract competition, and this lowers the effort/skill adjusted returns. Also the amount of effort attracted varies with circumstances. In very low income countries, far more energy goes into picking over waste looking for treasure. In certain areas, people do spend more time looking for things and do find them – one thinks of metal detectors – and this does in fact lower the returns from the activity.

The question is not, whether returns and price movements are random, nor is it whether they are “correct”. The question is, do I have any chance of finding anomalies and profiting from them under the constraints of not incurring excessive risk, and not investing excessive resources, which means risk and resources disproportional to the returns. Lots of evidence from studies of investment managers, and lots of evidence from efforts to find superior investment managers, shows that the answer is mostly negative.

However, there is also evidence from p/e ratios and Tobin’s Q, which show that objectively, the returns in the market are out there. It is just that it is very difficult for people as a species to behave in ways that realise them. This also is compatible with EMH. If it were reasonably easy for us as a species to resist waves of emotion in investment, the opportunities revealed by historical studies of Q and P/Es would not exist.

To advise the generality to try to do so is probably not responsible. To do it oneself, if one really believes oneself to be immune to our species economic irrationality, may be very sensible.

Patri Friedman September 9, 2004 at 10:01 pm

It may be that some people can beat the market. But look at it this way. The returns from identifying a mispricing are proportional to the capital you can bet. Someone with ten million to use on a mispriced stock can make 100 times as much as someone with a hundred grand to bet.

This means the guy with ten million can afford to spend a hundred times as much money finding that mispricing. Therefore the chance of an individual small investor being able to outperform the market is zero. He would have to find a mispricing that smart, experienced professionals using fast computers with big budgets missed.

Big hedge funds do better than index funds. But I am very skeptical that an individual can do the same.

Dirk Friedrich September 10, 2004 at 2:46 am

It may be that some people can beat the market. But look at it this way. The returns from identifying a mispricing are proportional to the capital you can bet. Someone with ten million to use on a mispriced stock can make 100 times as much as someone with a hundred grand to bet.

Other investors will try to find out about big investors’ plans and try to have a piece of the pie. So whenever a big investor is out there buying rumour will tell other people that he is. Subsequently small investors will be free riders and buy, just because the big guy has. This eliminates a big chunk of what big investor might earn beacue of higher prices due to increased demand of that stock.

Jim Jordan September 10, 2004 at 4:58 am

For anyone who even considers EMH or gives Random Walk theory the time of day I have three words for you….

ELLIOTT WAVE THEORY

Regards
JJ

Jardinero1 September 10, 2004 at 11:07 am

Here are some undervalued companies: LMIA, ATS, CPN, ILA, PIII. All priced below book value, good current ratios, good prospects for positive earnings. It doesn’t take a lot of money, computers, special training to identify values like these; just read the paper. The reason why most investors make no money is because they look backward instead of forward. The aforementioned companies are really scary looking back; looking forward they are not so bad. MSFT, DELL, BAC look pretty good looking back and that’s where the vast majority of investors will throw their money and they will lose.

Steven Kane September 10, 2004 at 4:03 pm

From the article:

“But even apart from that there is another related fundamental problem with EMH, namely that it rests on the absurd assumptions of the “Perfect Competion” model of markets, both in terms of assumptions about people´s knowledge and the impact of their trading on the market.”

I disagree here. While the market may not have perfect information, it is going to be difficult to get more information than all the other professional traders. I think that many investors do act rationally based in new information on a particular firm.

Lonsdale September 10, 2004 at 4:45 pm

EMH is a self defeating hypothesis. The more people believe EMH the stupider they act because they believe everything is already priced in.

As for picking managers who can beat the market – pick bulls in a bull market and avoid bulls in a bear market or when the yield curve inverts.

Stefan Karlsson September 11, 2004 at 7:51 am

Steven, I didn’t say anything about who will have the best knowledge, only that knowledge is imperfect. And of course it seems likely that usually big investors will have better knowledge then smaller investors because the former has more resources to gain information.

However as a matter of fact, the big mutual funds more often than not underperform and trail stock indexes such as the S & P 500 . This is probably partially due to the fact that their size prevents them from investing in stocks with low volume , but it might also indicate that the analysis methods they use are bad.

Steven Kane September 12, 2004 at 2:25 pm

From Mr. Karlsson:

“Steven, I didn’t say anything about who will have the best knowledge, only that knowledge is imperfect. And of course it seems likely that usually big investors will have better knowledge then smaller investors because the former has more resources to gain information.”

I agree that knowledge is imperfect when it comes to the stock market. This is also the case for markets in general. But what is at issue here is not whether investors have perfect information, but if they have adequate information.

What I cannot understand is why there are so many investors out there who believe that other investors have “mis-read” the information on a particular firm, or that the other investors simply haven’t taken the time to absorb the information that is available. Hence, the myth of the “undervalued” stock is born.

We do not usually go around in our daily lives searching for items that are for sale that we believe are “undervalued.” We know a priori and from experience that markets for any good or service have adequate information to set accurate equilibrium prices.

There are of course exceptions to this rule, but I would chalk these up as isolated incidents, and if an exception does arise there are plenty of people around to take advantage of this. Take for example the Christmas “mega toy” saga that occurs every year. Some toy comes out around Christmas time that has unprecedented popularity. The retailers do not receive enough of the toys in time to meet the mad rush and people who are lucky enough to get them resell them at a big profit. In this case the toys were temporarily undervalued, but of course the free market quickly corrects that.

Therefore, I do believe that there is adequate information for investors to accurately set the value of a stock, through buying and selling. Is this value accurate to the millionth of a cent, as it would be under the “perfect information” doctrine? No. But I do think it is accurate enough to make beating the market a task relegated to searching for isolated and fleeting incidents.

Stefan Karlsson September 12, 2004 at 3:33 pm

“What I cannot understand is why there are so many investors out there who believe that other investors have “mis-read” the information on a particular firm, or that the other investors simply haven’t taken the time to absorb the information that is available. Hence, the myth of the “undervalued” stock is born.”

I actually explained several reasons why undervaluations (and overvaluations) will inevitably occur. The fundamental value of a asset (including a stock)is of course the present value of all future cash flows going to the owner of that asset. But because the size of that future cash flow is unknown the fundamental value is also unknown. There are however of course clues which enables investors to assess roughly what is more or less likely to happen with future profits. What clues will give the best prediction of future profit differs very much from company to company and this is likely to make the guesses of all those cloned MBA-types at mutual funds to go very wrong in some cases.

And there is various issues controlling both supply and demand for stocks which are more or less unrelated to stocks. Including waves of optimism and pessimism, bank credit expansion and
changes in time preference and risk aversion. And since most people do not intend to hold stocks forever, such factors must also be considered in their investment decisions.

For anyone who has followed the markets in recent years and experienced things like NASDAQ 5000, the idea that stocks or other assets are never under- or overvalued seems very implausible to put it mildly.

“We do not usually go around in our daily lives searching for items that are for sale that we believe are “undervalued.”"

Well, sure, at least if you mean “undervalued” in the sense of something which can be bought and sold (We do however look for bargains when it comes to consumer goods and so on) . But that is because such investment decisions is the jobs of professional entrepreneurs.

“We know a priori and from experience that markets for any good or service have adequate information to set accurate equilibrium prices.”

Actually equilibrium prices means that prices will be at the level which equalizes supply and demand, not that the future investment return will be equal for all investment objects.

Stefan Karlsson September 12, 2004 at 4:01 pm

A correction of what I just wrote: “And there is various issues controlling both supply and demand for stocks which are more or less unrelated to stocks.” I meant to say “unrelated to future profits”.

Steven Kane September 12, 2004 at 5:12 pm

Mr. Karlsson:

Assuming that what you say is true, that undervaluations do occur, we must now question the degree that they do occur, and how long they last. On the one hand under the “perfect informataion” doctrine we have a “perfectly tight” market, one that has no undervaluations. On the other hand we have an “extremely loose” market, in which undervaluations occur with signifcant frequency. Obviously the stock market is somewhere in between.

If the stock market was extremely loose, we would witness arbitrary prices in which firms that had a large amount of assets, excellent track records and great profit potential i.e. robust firms, could very well be on the pink sheets for weeks before the stock price corrected. Vice versa for firms about to go bankrupt.

To say that the market cannot be efficient if it is not “perfectly tight” is misleading. I agree that the market is not “perfectly tight,” but on the other hand we know that it is not “extremely loose” either.

It is my contention, however, that the stock market is tight enough to the degree that speculation in it is relatively unprofitable, and I think you tend to admit this in the last part of your article.

Also from your article:

“The advocates of EMH are like people who say that there can never be any bills or coins to be found on the street because if there had been any money on the street someone would have picked it up. Yet if someone has picked up the money then these people would have been contradicted since the people who have picked up the money would have done what the other people said was impossible. Thus, the assumptions underlying the conclusion that there can be no money on the street or no profit opportunities in financial markets are in itself in direct contradiction with the conclusions they are supposed to prove!”

I do not believe that people who believe in the EMH say that there is never any money in the street, just that there isn’t money in the street often enough for us to quit our day jobs and search for it all day long. Afterall, Mr. Karlsson, when was the last time you picked up a large bill off the ground?

Andy Stedman September 13, 2004 at 2:18 pm

Here is a question that, for me, gets to the crux of things: does the average stock fund manager beat a random basket of stocks? Not an index basket–that’s not random. Would one who picked stocks with, say, a ouija board, expect to be an average, stellar, or miserable performer?

Duodecimal September 13, 2004 at 2:44 pm

Andy:

It seems to depend on what point in the credit cycle. During the NASDAQ run-up, there were a number of articles (pre-2000) in the news detailing the exploits of a monkey picking stocks and beating some famed managers.

I expect that during a period of credit deflation, such random pickings are less likely to beat conscious choices.

So I guess that if the general trend is up, and things are imbalanced by monetary/credit inflation, expert managers would be nonplussed by the seemingly irrational behavoir of the stock market (i.e., Warren Buffet being derided by BH shareholders for not getting in on the dot-com boom).

Since the effects of inflation are unpredictable to any precise extent, random choices that ignore conventional wisdom could conceivably cast a net wide enough to catch the range of stocks that get reeled in by the mania.

The same goes for deflation, but with the opposite effects. I’m sure quite a few people would be amused by an actual empirical performance study including both sides of the boom/bust cycle even if it provides no actual predictive benefits for future cycles.

Stefan Karlsson September 13, 2004 at 2:57 pm

“It is my contention, however, that the stock market is tight enough to the degree that speculation in it is relatively unprofitable, and I think you tend to admit this in the last part of your article.”

What I wrote was that for the vast majority of people , speculation is not profitable. But for people who have some advantage (not necessarily permanent)in knowledge and/or method of analysis speculation will be profitable. And it is on that issue where my disagreement with EMH lies.

“Afterall, Mr. Karlsson, when was the last time you picked up a large bill off the ground?”

Actually, I found a 50 kronor (Roughly $7) bill 1½ months ago.

Steven Kane September 13, 2004 at 8:06 pm

“What I wrote was that for the vast majority of people , speculation is not profitable. But for people who have some advantage (not necessarily permanent)in knowledge and/or method of analysis speculation will be profitable. And it is on that issue where my disagreement with EMH lies.”

In that case I would have to say that speculation in the the stock market is in fact very much like gambling. In your average casino the vast majority of gamblers don’t stand a chance against the house odds. You see, the vast majority of gamblers either play slot machines which are hopeless, or they play table games which are also unbeatable, or which require quite a bit of skill to beat.

Nontheless, there are a very select few gamblers who are experts. They know which games are beatable, and they know how to beat them. For instance, in Blackjack there are people who know how to count the cards and bet accordingly in order to beat the house. Also, for video poker there are people who know which machines to play and how to play every hand in order to get a positive expectation.

However, gambling is relatively unprofitable, often times even for experts. The reason why is that in order for gambling to be worth their time, they need a nice sized bankroll. Then, once they get this bankroll they can’t just plop it on the table in one shot, their risk of ruin would go through the roof. The laws of statistics dictate that when one has a positive expectation, it is best to play this out over as many events as possible. In fact, this is what the casino does by imposing table limits. The casino enjoys the luxury of having millions of small bets made relative to the very large house bankroll (millions of dollars for the big casinos). Therefore, when the expert gambler takes the role of the house by getting a positive expectation they have to break their bankroll up into small units and bet them over a long period of time, and slowly grind out their advantage. Even after doing all that, however, there is usually a small chance that they will go bust before doubling their initial investment.

I would venture to estimate that for the expert trader things are worse. The reason why is that an expert gambler can at least calculate their risk of ruin, and all the other probabilities they need. After that, the actual game becomes simply a mechanical process, ignoring for a moment the fact that they have to avoid detection by the house.

The expert trader, however, has no way of knowing their true advantage over the market. Furthermore, the expert trader does not have the luxury of being able to make a lot of small “bets.” If they do indeed have an advantage over the market, they are going to have to use this advantage over a much fewer number of events. The reason why is that every trade they make incurs a charge. Unlike the expert gambler, who can simply break up their bankroll, the expert trader is going to have to limit the number of investments they make, greatly increasing their risk of ruin.

Then there is the problem, as you pointed out of one’s advantage over the market not necessarily being permanent. This is in contrast to an expert gambler whose advantage in a particular game of Blackjack, while small, is indeed, a permanent one.

Therefore, the stock market may not be gambling, as the EMH proponents say, it is actually LESS desirable than gambling.

Stefan Karlsson September 14, 2004 at 3:23 pm

“They know which games are beatable, and they know how to beat them. For instance, in Blackjack there are people who know how to count the cards and bet accordingly in order to beat the house. Also, for video poker there are people who know which machines to play and how to play every hand in order to get a positive expectation.”

Actually, when I was refering to gambling I meant games where it is not possible to have a possible expectation through some kind of expert knowledge, like a lottery, in which only pure luck can gain you money.

“If they do indeed have an advantage over the market, they are going to have to use this advantage over a much fewer number of events. The reason why is that every trade they make incurs a charge. Unlike the expert gambler, who can simply break up their bankroll, the expert trader is going to have to limit the number of investments they make, greatly increasing their risk of ruin.”

No, you’re wrong. You’re assuming that the expert trader gains a positive expectation by taking extraordinary risks. Even EMH acknowledges that you can gain a positive expectation by taking large risks. What defines a expert trader is his ability to have higher return given a certain level of risk. If you have superior abilities or knowledge it is very easy to achieve high returns without taking large risks.

Your view that they risk being “ruined” is virtually impossible unless they take extremely high risks like betting all their money on options or being highly leveraged. But that is not what most superior traders do nor is that necessary for them to achieve high earnings.

Even superior traders make bad investments and suffer losses sometimes of course, but that only means losing a small part of their money, a loss which can be made up for in the next trade.

Steven Kane September 14, 2004 at 7:35 pm

“No, you’re wrong. You’re assuming that the expert trader gains a positive expectation by taking extraordinary risks. Even EMH acknowledges that you can gain a positive expectation by taking large risks. What defines a expert trader is his ability to have higher return given a certain level of risk. If you have superior abilities or knowledge it is very easy to achieve high returns without taking large risks.”

That’s my point though. Compared to an expert Blackjack player the expert trader IS taking extraordinary risks. An expert Blackjack player with a “measly” positive expectation of around 1% can be virtually guaranteed to double his initial stake before going broke, given a thousand or two betting units.

Now let’s take a look at the expert trader. The expert trader would be lucky to get a 20% return in a year, let alone 100% and he is certainly not virtually guaranteed to not go broke before he doubles his initial investment.

“Your view that they risk being “ruined” is virtually impossible unless they take extremely high risks like betting all their money on options or being highly leveraged. But that is not what most superior traders do nor is that necessary for them to achieve high earnings.”

Whatever their risk of ruin is, it does exist, and it is a lot higher than the expert gambler’s. Furthermore, since the expert gambler can make precise calculations, he can control his risk of ruin. If he wants to double his bankroll faster but with more risk he decreases his betting units, vice versa if he wants to almost completely eliminate RoR. The expert trader on the other hand will never be able to completely control his RoR, because the stock market is dynamic and is affected by unprecedented events.

“Even superior traders make bad investments and suffer losses sometimes of course, but that only means losing a small part of their money, a loss which can be made up for in the next trade.”

Then there are days in which the entire market tanks, along with the “safe” investments they were relying on.

Stefan Karlsson September 15, 2004 at 10:00 am

“Now let’s take a look at the expert trader. The expert trader would be lucky to get a 20% return in a year, let alone 100% and he is certainly not virtually guaranteed to not go broke before he doubles his initial investment.”

I would argue he IS for practical purposes guaranteed unless he takes extreme risks. Virtually no investments excepts derivatives fall 100% in a day.

And regarding returns there has been many expert traders like Paul Tudor Jones, Monroe Trout and Victor Sperandeo who has had a average annual return of more than 60% during their career.

“Then there are days in which the entire market tanks, along with the “safe” investments they were relying on.”

I think that an expert trader you would know in most cases if the markets will tank. And it is very rare for the general stock market to fall more then a few percent on a day.

Duodecimal September 15, 2004 at 10:51 am

Don’t forget, Stefan: It is just as rare for stock markets to rise more than a few percent in a day.

In the long run (FYI – my ‘short term’ is five years, so that may give some idea of what a youngun like me considers to be a long run), no one would have made any real money by being invested in indexes. The ~10x gain over the last three or so decades in the DOW, for example, parallels the ~10x fall in the value of the dollar (relative to, for example, gold).

I’ve taken to viewing the stock market indexes of late as almost as much a proxy for inflation detection as precious metals.

Doug Smith September 15, 2004 at 7:51 pm

Just as market competition drives down prices for consumers, so does market competition drive down returns for investors.

Opportunities for extraordinary return are quickly exploited by the very skilled or the very lucky. When I see those ads in my e-mail trumpeting 120% returns (that is, the possibility of 120% returns), I have to laugh. It is instructive to note that Warren Buffett primarily buys closely held corporations, not publicly traded ones.

Key personnel die, resources get nationalized, buildings get blown up, consumer whims change. I too would like to see the methodology for “easily” picking above-average fund managers and “guaranteeing” the impossibility of losing your shirt on an investment.

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