In a piece entitled, “Even for Cashiers, College Pays Off,” David Leonhardt looks to throw cold water on the idea that college just isn’t worth it. Europe has it wrong that some kids shouldn’t even go to high school. Thank goodness America got it right, writes Leonhardt.
The evidence is overwhelming that college is a better investment for most graduates than in the past. A new study even shows that a bachelor’s degree pays off for jobs that don’t require one: secretaries, plumbers and cashiers. And, beyond money, education seems to make people happier and healthier.
Leonhardt says that The Hamilton Project studied the issue and found that college tuition provides a 15% return, much better than stocks (7%) and real estate (1%). Leonhardt claims,
Construction workers, police officers, plumbers, retail salespeople and secretaries, among others, make significantly more with a degree than without one. Why? Education helps people do higher-skilled work, get jobs with better-paying companies or open their own businesses.
The NYT provides a graphic to illustrate Leonhardt’s point. Dishwashers without a college degree pull down $19,000 a year, while dishwashers with a college degree make $34,000. The later number comes to over $16 per hour. But why would the local Appleby’s shell out $16+ for dishwashers when they could hire someone at minimum wage?
Hairdressers with a degree command $32,000 according to the Center on Education and the Work Force at Georgetown University, while those that start cutting and styling without, make only $19,000. Next time you’re in Great Clips for a trim look for diplomas on the wall next to the framed cosmetology licenses.
In the case of some government jobs, like cops and teachers, work rules require pay increases when an employee obtains a degree. But cashiers?
Maybe because some college graduates are working multiple jobs, the study wrongly credits a worker’s total earnings from all jobs to just one employment category.
For instance, in a more believable story in the Times, Hannah Seligson writes about a number of the college educated who must cobble together a number of part-time jobs to make ends meet. While some people do this by choice, many do it out of necessity.
“Young college graduates working multiple jobs is a natural consequence of a bad labor market and having, on average, $20,000 worth of student loans to pay off,” said Carl E. Van Horn, director of the John J. Heldrich Center for Workforce Development at Rutgers.
“[T]he median starting salary for those who graduated from four-year degree programs in 2009 and 2010 was $27,000, down from $30,000 for those who graduated in 2006 to 2008, before the recession,” writes Seligson, who adds, “Try living on $27,000 a year — before taxes — in a city like New York, Washington or Chicago.”
Mia Branco graduated magna cum laude with a degree in musical theater from American University in 2009 and works four jobs in order to take home $1,300 in a good month.
“More college graduates are working in second jobs that don’t require college degrees,” Seligson writes, part of a phenomenon called ‘mal-employment.’ In short, many baby-sitters, sales clerks, telemarketers and bartenders are overqualified for their jobs.”
Nearly two million college graduates were mal-employed last year, up 17% from 2007. Nearly half of all college graduates are working at a job not requiring a degree.
Roger Fierro works four jobs and likes it that way. “I was working 12 hours a day and making $38,000 a year and it wasn’t making a dent in the $120,000 in loans I had to pay off. Plus, I was miserable.”
“Among the members of the class of 2010, just 56 percent had held at least one job by this spring, when the survey was conducted,” reported the Times last month. “That compares with 90 percent of graduates from the classes of 2006 and 2007.”
Leonhardt believes higher education skeptics are elitist. Maybe he should ask the class of 2010.
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My cousin has nothing but a high school education. He managed to do ok for himself. He’s CCIE certified, was pursued hard by Cisco (from which he tuned down an offer of $150,000 per year), and is earning close to $200,000 per year.
College is not s prerequisite for success. That’s a myth fed to us by the media-academic complex. I’m working on a doctorate, and make about 1/4 what you cousin does. So far, I’ve been pretty disappointed with my return on investment.
Yes, I agree. However, in today’s society. Majority of the people without a college education do not have the same luck/opportunity. You have a better chance of being successful with a college education than without one.
Yes, but that’s predominantly because people assume anyone with a brain, and some without a brain, have a college degree. The filter “do they have a college degree” is a very quick one for HR to rule out people that are going to be difficult to work with . . . even if it does generate a few false positives. In an ideal situation, a degree would actually indicate true skill level . . . more like a certification.
I agree. College is not necessary, but education is. I’ve known people who skipped college, even high school dropouts but are successful and living the life they love. It’s about passion, motivation, and skill. With all the resources available to us, anyone can self-educate. But Drigan is also right, when you’re looking to getting a formal employment, college is definitely a number 1 HR filter. So I guess skipping college is alright when you intend to make your own waves instead of fit in a society.
Karla
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Follow the money trail behind David Leonhardt. An elitist himself, calling the “kettle black”. Go figure.
A protege of Horace Mann School. This type believing they have superior wisdom over what’s best for me and anyone for that matter. Do all members of society need to pass through the education mills? Just take a look at special education programs in America. Even the severely mentally challenged is passing through the mills at a greater expense than the mentally capable.
“Try living on $27,000 a year — before taxes — in a city like New York, Washington or Chicago.”
A 2010 graduate with a bachelor’s degree, I’m doing about $23,000 a year – before taxes – in Houston. It’s not fun.
This is one of the most disappointing articles that I have ever read from Mises Institute. It is all over the place. Perhaps it is meant to show that statistics are virtually meaningless. If so, it should say so. If the article was meant to rebut Leonhardt position, it does so in only the most weakest of ways. Simply, there is not enough meat to sink one’s teeth into.
It’s a blog post.
I have to agree with you. The point and structure of the argument was below average by LvMI blog standards.
There are a lot of details left out about those numbers. What level of degree, associates, bachelors, doctorate, etc. I’m not sure if that 15% is taking the large amount of debt and the years not worked while in school into account. Not to mention that now many students take out FEDERAL loans to go to school supporting a cradle to grave mentality. Could it also be that the federal reserve system and being the reserve currency falsely supports a college degree. I could go into detail on why that is but once these get to long people stop reading. Something to think about though.
Yeah, the statistic is really “people smart enough to get into college are smart enough to do better later in life.” What shocking insight!
In 2005 at the age of 60 I took on a job of cutting grass at a golf course resort that paid $9.50 hr. this was a 40 hour week working 4, 6 hr days and 2, 8 hr days every week and I soon took on the weekends getting Mondays off. In 60 days I got a raise to $11.50 because I was able to fill in for a security position @ a moment’s notice which in the end justified me staying on until Christmas. Called back in March, 6 weeks before opening (4 weeks before anyone else) I was able to utilize some of my other skills and expand my usefulness by taking on any shift that was available, working any holiday at any position they would offer. From that point on I worked year round and in 2007 I grossed $34,588 for the year at a $23,000 job !
I can guarantee that the ambition of some degree holding employees will put them way above the pack when it comes to earning.
So what they’re proving is that college degrees and licensing cause the costs of basic goods and services to rise unnecessarily.
Lol A+ comment
“A college degree increases the intrinsic worth of anyone – making them deserve much more money for simple tasks such as washing dishes, delivering pizzas, and working a cash register. It is not because of increased efficiency at their job, but because of an increased worth of the employee that their wages rise.”
@Jeremy, I can assure you that no employer in the world is going to pay anyone a nickel more if he has a degree of any kind. You either EARN it or you go find someone who needs what you have to offer. Please don’t get caught in a trap of false increased worth.
Your claim is far too logical, William. Many an employer pays more because of a degree.
I’ve known people were a college degree is a huge turn off.
This is mostly due to bad experiences with poor work ethics and the difficulty associated with training very inexperienced people who think they are smarter then you are.
If people think that a college degree will matter much in any situation were the college degree does not directly apply, are deluding themselves. The most useful thing you get from college degrees is the ability to make it past the corporate drones in HR. That is really what the majority of people are paying for with a 4-year degree nowadays.
If this is worth 25K in debt to look good on paper to people that don’t know any better then fine.
I certainly believe in education, but only in education for education’s sake. That is: personal benefit. If your goal is to look be more marketable on the job circuit then that is fine, but it’s not really a good return on investment for many people since there are other ways to do this.
I couldn’t agree more.
whoever came up with the scheme that european countries are endorsing sub-college education is a complete moron. Every country i heard of around here does encourage people HEAVILY to go for an University degree and in switzerland everybody has to go to school for 9 years, after this its an apprenticeship for 3-4 years with 1-2 days of school per week, depending on the branch. with an unemployment rate as high as 12% in the 16-24 years range. In scandinavia nearly everybody can pull off an assessment test, because the system doesnt require previous schools.
this may not be the best for the countries general goods and basic work like cashiers or dishwashers plus the possible lack of employees in those very branches, but still; i believe that its critical to have the best education possible for everybody, from an idealist pov, knowledge should be easier accessable in my country. basic it degrees like a+,ccna or mcse cost close to 6000 usd. and which low waged employee, as low as 18$/hour can raise this amount of money?
“I believe that its critical to have the best education possible for everybody, from an idealist pov, knowledge should be easier accessable in my country.”
The Mises Institute’s position, and that of its followers and members, is NOT that knowledge should not be aggressively and universally disseminated, or that “the best education possible” is not an ideal good. Were that the case, donors wouldn’t continually pour money into an organization which offers infinitely many copies of its books, articles, videos, and lectures for a zero price.
Our position is that a society provides “the best education possible” by the COMPLETELY free market process, and that government interventions have (perhaps intentionally!) prevented the market from providing that education.
It’s no surprise that those with college degrees make more even in menial jobs. Compare who is working in those jobs, after all. Those who went to career/tech schools or management training programs and the like out of high school and those in the military aren’t waiting tables, which leaves high school dropouts, college dropouts, those who finished college degrees, and those who graduated high school and weren’t motivated enough to do anything. Out of those four, who would YOU expect to do the best job, show up on time, and not run afoul of management?
So basically what they’re saying is like saying that a positive pregnancy test result is what conceives of the baby in the first place
Some degrees are useless and I don’t have a lot of empathy for people getting degrees in art history, psychology, performing arts, etc…
These degrees are often pursued blindly as to what the possible professional outcomes will likely be. Getting a 4 year degree in psychology qualifies you to do almost nothing in the field. Yet most student think a degree in what ever seems fun to them at the time grants them an instant 40K job upon graduation.
“Europe has it wrong that some kids shouldn’t even go to high school. ”
Bull.
I have two cousins in Italy, brother and sister, both in their early 20s. One finished university and the other said “it was a waste of time for him to do so.” Guess which one has a job?
JFF, don’t leave us hanging… it’s the one who didn’t go to university, isn’t it?
That in no way disproved the statement. What is the added benefit of sending kids with down syndrome to college?
Maybe Appleby’s prefers to hire relatives of management.
Regarding the pay difference for menial jobs, wouldn’t college graduates gravitate to more urban areas, where pay is higher anyway? A dishwasher in Podunk might pull down $19,000 a year, while dishwashers in Manhattan might make $34,000. I would expect many dishwashers in NYC to have degrees, but very few in Podunk.
That too, noah !! There are many reasons that the numbers say what they do.
Or he could just ask me. Ph.D. in the humanities, M.A. in English, B.A. in recombinant gene technology — and unemployed. Why unemployed? Well, when you have people telling you, “I don’t know what to do with you,” or people telling you that, even though you would be teaching the class if you were teaching at a university, that you are unqualified for the position (technical writing), or that you are overqualified — or both (my favorite was when I got two letters in the same week, one saying I didn’t have enough philosophy, and other saying I had too much for the respective positions) — you can imagine why I am in this situation. It’s ridiculous. We waste human talent and education in this country. And we will reap what we have sown for it all to soon.
The Student Loan Corporation had a recent infographic on the ROI of particular majors. At the end of the day, it’s the major that will determine the career, although the school you go to has a lot to do with the type of job you have as well. Take a look at the SLC infographic here: https://www.studentloan.com/pay_for_college/roicollegemajors.htm.
Day in and day out, we’re inundated with sounds: at the mall, in the car, at home, even on the street corner. Music is more a part of our daily lives than at any other point in history. Yet we expect people to devote two hours of their day to pure listening, sitting quietly, and politely applauding at the end of a piece. This has its place, but it doesn’t have to be the steadfast rule.
As previously mentioned, some degrees have little value unless you are tops in that area. Other degrees, like petroleum engineering, offer good paying jobs to start. Most folks I know go to college almost automatically without thinking about what they want to do for a living. Of course we’re in tough times now. Maybe in a few years we’ll be talking about how valuable a degree is!
That’s right! Having an education gives you an edge to others, most companies right now are looking into your education background.
With education you have no worries.
Make education a priority in life.
Education which provides us knowlegde and a life long learning that the world can’t offer. Indeed, we need to value education.
Good education is little more then distilled experience.
Unfortunately most universities are ran by people who achieved nothing except the ability to navigate bureaucracies adeptly, obey rules, please his authority figures, and survive petty college politics. The only life experience they have is that of a dependent young adult finding a comfortable existence in a insular institutional environment.
They teach their courses based on the knowledge that the professors think a experienced person would have, if they were ever to meet one of their liking.
There are some types of courses were that is not a bad thing, but….
doh, replied to a bot. What a maroon.
Without education I wouldn’t have been able to find job in UK to support me and family at home in Poland. I know born English aren’t really happy that I have job but my customers very happy because I do good work and I have men working for me – some of them are English. I think education is the thing that lets people be smart about problems.
Education is so important. If you are aiming for a better life, then have a good education, finish your studies, make it your priority, as it will be your bullet in facing all the challenges in finding a good job.^_^
______________________________
Recruitment Agencies Melbourne
You’ll regret of not having a degree in college. This is your passport to success.
You’ll regret of not having a degree in college. This is your passport to success. Me too
You’ll regret of not having a degree in college. This is your passport to success.
College education teaches higher education including professional studies, practical living , languages and literature. In my opinion , the school education just for to learn the society and communicate the understanding but not able to develop skill through experience. School education serve to make people literate but college education career oriented.
School choice – the option for public schools includes completely separate schools, programs, and classes. The public school choice generally accepts all students in the community although some will be in waiting list. Examples are charter school, which combine state funding and private initiatives and magnet schools, which draw students to certain themes like performing arts.
Forgive me if I may seem a little cynical about the true value of college degrees. In South Africa, it is recognized thaat certain sections of the student community receive preferential treatment in both marking and in availability of finance in an attempt to rectify the wrongs of the past. In the process, however, the degrees from even the more respected institutions are being devalued.
First of all, the educated typically live in different geographical areas than the non-educated. You don’t see many bachelor holding rednecks in bumfuck, nowhere. You do see them in cities though, where pay is higher. I’m not sure why they are dishwashers, though, except perhaps because of just a few years of a bad economy. I’m not disagreeing with you about your point, the country shouldn’t have 100% college education rates, it’s inefficient, and that’s Europe’s socialist fuck up, but that’s not what I’m talking about. I will have a degree, but to ensure a better future for myself, not my country. I’m enlisting to serve, but college grads have a 4% unemployment rate. Compare that with the non-educated. It’s a fact that college degree holders make 70% more over their lifetime than non-degree holders.
Let me put it this way. Take any economics class, and you’ll learn that human capital (education) multiplies efficiency and productivity. So having an education, under no circumanstances, is a bad thing. If everyone in our society had a bachelors degree, it would be a positive externality on our entire country, and productivity would increase. The only negative thing about this would be that it would make my personal degree worth much less. No one would pay me extra for having one. (Supply is high, price is low) I really, really, like this website, but this particular article is just wrong.
Also, the use of statistics in the blog is just horrible. As previously pointed out, there is the dishwasher dispute, and also, college graduates who live in cities probably are higher up the median than non-city dwellers. Therefore you cannot use the general statistic for what should be limited to cities.
Oh, and the biggest problem I have with this article is that it cites something like three years worth of data (incorrectly) and ignores the rest of history. You can’t hold that narrow of a view just because it fits your belief system.
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Education is must for everyone in this world.Really education,especially higher education is important.Because UG and PG Degrees witch plays an important role in everyone’s life.
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