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	<title>Comments on: Copying, Not Trolling, Is &#8220;Fair Use&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://archive.mises.org/17373/copying-not-trolling-is-fair-use/</link>
	<description>Proceeding Ever More Boldly Against Evil</description>
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		<title>By: John James</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/17373/copying-not-trolling-is-fair-use/comment-page-1/#comment-789250</link>
		<dc:creator>John James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jun 2011 08:47:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=17373#comment-789250</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Didn&#039;t science-fiction writer Neil Gaiman admit that when his books were posted online, made available in their entirety, for free, he saw his sales increase by at least 300%?

Yes.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.mises.org/15647/gaiman-on-copyright-piracy-and-the-web/&quot; / rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Yes he did.&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t science-fiction writer Neil Gaiman admit that when his books were posted online, made available in their entirety, for free, he saw his sales increase by at least 300%?</p>
<p>Yes.  <a href="http://blog.mises.org/15647/gaiman-on-copyright-piracy-and-the-web/" / rel="nofollow">Yes he did.</a></p>
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		<title>By: HL</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/17373/copying-not-trolling-is-fair-use/comment-page-1/#comment-788954</link>
		<dc:creator>HL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jun 2011 03:01:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=17373#comment-788954</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Lo and behold, booboo &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.vegasinc.com/news/2011/jun/22/judge-tosses-righthaven-suit-against-former-prosec/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;lost&lt;/a&gt; another one today.  What&#039;s a greedy IP jerk to do?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lo and behold, booboo <a href="http://www.vegasinc.com/news/2011/jun/22/judge-tosses-righthaven-suit-against-former-prosec/" rel="nofollow">lost</a> another one today.  What&#8217;s a greedy IP jerk to do?</p>
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		<title>By: Wildberry</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/17373/copying-not-trolling-is-fair-use/comment-page-1/#comment-788911</link>
		<dc:creator>Wildberry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jun 2011 21:57:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=17373#comment-788911</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Michael A. Clem June 22, 2011 at 3:50 pm

&lt;blockquote&gt;It might be considered a victory of sorts, but I wouldn’t get too excited unless other judges agree with this judge.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Allow me to rephrase my central point.  This judge seems to be applying copyright laws as they are written.  So I wouldn&#039;t get too excited about the &quot;breakthrough&quot; victory here.  In this particular case, at least, all systems appear to be functioning normally.

Therfore, to raise the alarms or high-five each other that copyrights MAY have been weakened here, that is wrong.  The safeguards against violationg the premise, &quot;ideas are free&quot; has been simply preserved.  Ideas are still free, within the meaning of the copyrights statutes.

My thanks to Mr. Oliva, however unintentional it may have been, for illustrating how it actually works.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Michael A. Clem June 22, 2011 at 3:50 pm</p>
<blockquote><p>It might be considered a victory of sorts, but I wouldn’t get too excited unless other judges agree with this judge.</p></blockquote>
<p>Allow me to rephrase my central point.  This judge seems to be applying copyright laws as they are written.  So I wouldn&#8217;t get too excited about the &#8220;breakthrough&#8221; victory here.  In this particular case, at least, all systems appear to be functioning normally.</p>
<p>Therfore, to raise the alarms or high-five each other that copyrights MAY have been weakened here, that is wrong.  The safeguards against violationg the premise, &#8220;ideas are free&#8221; has been simply preserved.  Ideas are still free, within the meaning of the copyrights statutes.</p>
<p>My thanks to Mr. Oliva, however unintentional it may have been, for illustrating how it actually works.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael A. Clem</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/17373/copying-not-trolling-is-fair-use/comment-page-1/#comment-788893</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael A. Clem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jun 2011 20:50:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=17373#comment-788893</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Getting one judge to say that they had to show actual harm, instead of automatically assuming harm, is great!  Unfortunately, this was just one judge, and as Joe above emphasizes, the actual ruling was simply that RightHaven didn&#039;t have the right to sue over this, leaving the judge&#039;s comments on harm as being without much legal force.It might be considered a victory of sorts, but I wouldn&#039;t get too excited unless other judges agree with this judge.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Getting one judge to say that they had to show actual harm, instead of automatically assuming harm, is great!  Unfortunately, this was just one judge, and as Joe above emphasizes, the actual ruling was simply that RightHaven didn&#8217;t have the right to sue over this, leaving the judge&#8217;s comments on harm as being without much legal force.It might be considered a victory of sorts, but I wouldn&#8217;t get too excited unless other judges agree with this judge.</p>
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		<title>By: Wildberry</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/17373/copying-not-trolling-is-fair-use/comment-page-1/#comment-788842</link>
		<dc:creator>Wildberry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:57:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=17373#comment-788842</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mr. Olivia:

I was with you right up to here:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The copyright lobby expends a great deal of energy maintaining, without evidence, that copying “diminishes” the market for a given work. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

The object of the lobbyist&#039;s efforts is favorable legislation.  In the context of legal proceedings, there are plaintiffs, defendants, and witnesses.  The ruling on harm merely states that a general claim of harm is not sufficient to show legal harm.  The concept is &quot;actual harm&quot;, not speculative harm.  Unfortunately, the legislative threshold is not quite so high.

On the standing issue, my opinion is that the intended trolling could have been accomplished by simply substituting a contingency agreement for the assignment.  In such an arrangement, the copyright holder would be the plaintiff and would have standing.  The lawyer could continue to exploit his business plan (trolling) without being tossed out for lack of standing.  

That leaves us with the Fair Use doctrine and the proper subject matter of copyrights.  

First, despite the “ideas are free” line of argument often recited here, which claims that there is no non-arbitrary way to distinguish between what is protectable under copyrights and what is not, (that is all “works” are merely ideas) this ruling turns on such a distinction.

Here the judge ruled that there is very little about this article that is protectable in the first place, since ideas and factual content are not, in themselves, protectable under the statute. Second, he found that even if there is protectable work involved, some creative, original expression, the use was within Fair Use, and the copyright holder is therefore there would be no infringement anyway.

Despite the troll’s supposed intent to have armed guards kidnap the offender in the middle of the night by enlisting the monopoly on aggressive coercion held by his State authorities, the copyright laws themselves, given a fair reading by the judge, defended the distinction of “protected works”  and Fair Use provided under the statute.  Once again, liberty prevails!

This seems like a strong argument for, not against copyrights.  The system, at least in this case, seems to be working rather well.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Olivia:</p>
<p>I was with you right up to here:</p>
<blockquote><p>The copyright lobby expends a great deal of energy maintaining, without evidence, that copying “diminishes” the market for a given work. </p></blockquote>
<p>The object of the lobbyist&#8217;s efforts is favorable legislation.  In the context of legal proceedings, there are plaintiffs, defendants, and witnesses.  The ruling on harm merely states that a general claim of harm is not sufficient to show legal harm.  The concept is &#8220;actual harm&#8221;, not speculative harm.  Unfortunately, the legislative threshold is not quite so high.</p>
<p>On the standing issue, my opinion is that the intended trolling could have been accomplished by simply substituting a contingency agreement for the assignment.  In such an arrangement, the copyright holder would be the plaintiff and would have standing.  The lawyer could continue to exploit his business plan (trolling) without being tossed out for lack of standing.  </p>
<p>That leaves us with the Fair Use doctrine and the proper subject matter of copyrights.  </p>
<p>First, despite the “ideas are free” line of argument often recited here, which claims that there is no non-arbitrary way to distinguish between what is protectable under copyrights and what is not, (that is all “works” are merely ideas) this ruling turns on such a distinction.</p>
<p>Here the judge ruled that there is very little about this article that is protectable in the first place, since ideas and factual content are not, in themselves, protectable under the statute. Second, he found that even if there is protectable work involved, some creative, original expression, the use was within Fair Use, and the copyright holder is therefore there would be no infringement anyway.</p>
<p>Despite the troll’s supposed intent to have armed guards kidnap the offender in the middle of the night by enlisting the monopoly on aggressive coercion held by his State authorities, the copyright laws themselves, given a fair reading by the judge, defended the distinction of “protected works”  and Fair Use provided under the statute.  Once again, liberty prevails!</p>
<p>This seems like a strong argument for, not against copyrights.  The system, at least in this case, seems to be working rather well.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/17373/copying-not-trolling-is-fair-use/comment-page-1/#comment-788781</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jun 2011 06:17:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=17373#comment-788781</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You misunderstand the ruling.  The judge did not bar third party assignees from suing on copyright claims.  What he said was that as a matter of statutory law, a copyright holder may not attempt to assign a bare eight to sue.  Since the agreement between the newspaper publisher and Righthaven gave Righthaven a purported bare right to sue, with nothing else, it was not effective as an assignment and Righthaven lacked standing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You misunderstand the ruling.  The judge did not bar third party assignees from suing on copyright claims.  What he said was that as a matter of statutory law, a copyright holder may not attempt to assign a bare eight to sue.  Since the agreement between the newspaper publisher and Righthaven gave Righthaven a purported bare right to sue, with nothing else, it was not effective as an assignment and Righthaven lacked standing.</p>
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		<title>By: Big Nanny</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/17373/copying-not-trolling-is-fair-use/comment-page-1/#comment-788759</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Nanny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jun 2011 04:08:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=17373#comment-788759</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[http://www.nin.com/

Stephen King should listen to Nine Inch Nails.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.nin.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.nin.com/</a></p>
<p>Stephen King should listen to Nine Inch Nails.</p>
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		<title>By: Big Brother</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/17373/copying-not-trolling-is-fair-use/comment-page-1/#comment-788751</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Brother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jun 2011 03:24:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=17373#comment-788751</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Maybe lots of people (how many? we don&#039;t know) downloaded it but didn&#039;t pay anything because they didn&#039;t like it, and didn&#039;t want to fork out money for it.

Who knows if Stephen King would have got any MORE money if he&#039;d sold the book the regular way?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe lots of people (how many? we don&#8217;t know) downloaded it but didn&#8217;t pay anything because they didn&#8217;t like it, and didn&#8217;t want to fork out money for it.</p>
<p>Who knows if Stephen King would have got any MORE money if he&#8217;d sold the book the regular way?</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/17373/copying-not-trolling-is-fair-use/comment-page-1/#comment-788740</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jun 2011 02:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=17373#comment-788740</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Didn&#039;t Radiohead once try making an album and put it online, and you could pay whatever you wanted for it and made a ton of money?

Yes they did

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Rainbows

Then they made a DVD

http://www.kat.ph/radiohead-2010-01-24-the-music-box-the-fonda-los-angeles-ca-us-2x-multicam-dvd-ntsc-t4888978.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t Radiohead once try making an album and put it online, and you could pay whatever you wanted for it and made a ton of money?</p>
<p>Yes they did</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Rainbows" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Rainbows</a></p>
<p>Then they made a DVD</p>
<p><a href="http://www.kat.ph/radiohead-2010-01-24-the-music-box-the-fonda-los-angeles-ca-us-2x-multicam-dvd-ntsc-t4888978.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.kat.ph/radiohead-2010-01-24-the-music-box-the-fonda-los-angeles-ca-us-2x-multicam-dvd-ntsc-t4888978.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Nuke Gray</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/17373/copying-not-trolling-is-fair-use/comment-page-1/#comment-788733</link>
		<dc:creator>Nuke Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jun 2011 01:27:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=17373#comment-788733</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Didn&#039;t Stephen King once try writing a serial novel online, but gave it up when it was copied without him getting any royalties? I think that authors would say that current copyright is necessary.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t Stephen King once try writing a serial novel online, but gave it up when it was copied without him getting any royalties? I think that authors would say that current copyright is necessary.</p>
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