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After using them for a while (a month or two), runing clothes get a built-in stink that does not disappear by washing any more. Or even if roughly disappear, strong stink comes back after two minutes of sweating.

Based on others advice, I have tried a few things, (freeze or sun-dry them), nothing really helps, I need to dispose the stuff periodically and buy new gear.

If TSP gets rid of this, it is clearly an easily verifiable effect, far from where psychology could effect the measurement of the outcome.

I apologize for misinterpreting your comment. I’ll blame it on multi-tasking.

But my comment is really a question I had on my mind since Jeff started posting on TSP. There have been some comments (not on this particular thread) which have questioned the use of TSP.

In the interest of fair play and greater understanding, I thought maybe you or someone might have a line on the environmental logic behind the anti-phosphate stance.

My search queries have not turned up much. I guess interest in this issue has fallen off the radar…or perhaps there was never much to it to begin with (which is what Jeffrey is alluding to in his reply below).

The only think I’m asking is: are your clothes really cleaner, or do you just want to see them that way?

Because the truth is, I can take your argument a step further and say:

“Clothes aren’t as clean as they were in the old days when I had a maid to wash them by hand, but the government made it so difficult and expensive for me to hire a maid, that now I am pretty much forced to use a washing machine. I have no doubt that this is the result of washing machine manufacturers pushing for labor regulations to prevent competition! Corporations go to bed with the government and the result is my maid lost her job and my clothes are dirtier than ever!”

If your argument is merely “if I want to use TSP, it’s my problem and the government shouldn’t interfere with my choices”, I am with you 100%. But that’s not all you’re saying, you’re saying washing powder with TSP is better than washing powder without TSP – but the only evidence to back that statement is anecdotal, and from people who are highly motivated to believe it, because of the argument above.

that’s all. I guess there’s no need to discuss this further

And some wastewater plants do remove phosphates. I read somewhere (here?) that <1% of phosphates in water come from residential sources, anyway.

For example, if I hurl a bottle into a public lake, the environmentalists say: ban bottles, destroy bottle makers, force everyone to haul water from miles away, etc. etc. They do not say: let’s have better rules, let’s privatize the lake, or, heaven forbid, one bottle doesn’t make a damn bit of difference.

Government outlawed the use of TSP in laundry soap. Jeff of the mises.org says TSP is good for laundry. It’s very easy to wash a load of clothes with a tablespoon of TSP and conclude “oh yeah, it came out much cleaner… take that government!”. Not necessarily because it’s cleaner, but because you want to believe it’s cleaner.

Now, this is an issue that can be easily settled with statistics and a good microscope: some soiled clothes, in one machine with TSP, in another without TSP, and then check for dirt and microbes.

If you’re satisfied with spending money on TSP just to be the rebel guy who won’t accept government dictate what you should use to do your laundry – go ahead, it is (or it should be!) your right.

In any case, my post was supposed to be humorous. If you guys failed to see that, well, my fault, sorry, let’s move on.

Maybe you can explain to me what the problem is with phosphates and the environment. I don’t see how having more plant life (algae) which is photosynthetic… In plants, algae, and cyanobacteria, photosynthesis uses carbon dioxide and water, releasing oxygen as a waste product and produces an oxygen by product (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis). …is bad for the environment.

Isn’t removing carbon dioxide and producing oxygen the ultimate global warming solution?

Furthermore, waste treatment facilities apparently don’t remove phosphates. So it seems to me the problem isn’t phosphates, but the lack of technology to remove them from waste water. Sounds like a problem for a freed market to solve.

Note:
The most confusing is statements like this:

These organisms use great amounts of oxygen and prevent sunlight from entering the water. http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/p.htm

I understand the eutrophication part…I don’t follow the oxygen part…it seems a contradiction to photosynthesis.

It’s all the rage for economics think tanks!