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	<title>Comments on: The &#8220;Crime&#8221; of Private Money</title>
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	<link>http://archive.mises.org/16399/the-crime-of-private-money/</link>
	<description>Proceeding Ever More Boldly Against Evil</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 17 May 2013 22:36:06 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/16399/the-crime-of-private-money/comment-page-1/#comment-772489</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2011 20:09:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=16399#comment-772489</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A bas l&#039;etat!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A bas l&#8217;etat!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Freedom Fighter</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/16399/the-crime-of-private-money/comment-page-1/#comment-771458</link>
		<dc:creator>Freedom Fighter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Apr 2011 21:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=16399#comment-771458</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually, it&#039;s the states that will destroy the country&#039;s unity. Igor Panarin stated this clearly. The prosperous states will want to secede from the welfare states. California is a big burden for Texas.

Now, states will not want to secede from the union politically nor militarily. But they will withhold monetary transfers to the fed, they will make broader use of discretionary laws and taxation powers, they will start non-cooperation on many legal matters and will take advantage of the federal government&#039;s position of weakness to impose their state will etc.

This will create a disunity in policy, fiscal matters, legal matters that may or may not lead to more severe secession movements.

At any point, the federal government will be like a sheet ripped apart by being pulled from both sides, by prosperous states that want to keep their wealth and poor states that want to take the other state&#039;s wealth. The federal government will lose prestige and respect and some states will start to solve litigations directly between themselves. You know you&#039;ve lost legitimacy and standing when people start solving their own problems among themselves instead of reporting to you in case of trouble. That&#039;s exactly what will happen in the USA.
Strong states will start to solve their problems themselves, circumventing FEMA and other federal redtape and will start to make interstate arrangements without federal consultation.

I don&#039;t think the USA will break appart like Igor Panarin says, but I think that the federal government will lose a lot of power and that the USA will become more of a confederation than a federation.

In the end, the USA will ressemble the European Union where several interests will compete against each other under one banner instead of being into true unity.

States might actually start to mint their own state currency, state bonds, state vouchers, state coupons etc. And incorporate those as payments for employee benefits. At this point, the federal government will be powerless to stop this trend.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, it&#8217;s the states that will destroy the country&#8217;s unity. Igor Panarin stated this clearly. The prosperous states will want to secede from the welfare states. California is a big burden for Texas.</p>
<p>Now, states will not want to secede from the union politically nor militarily. But they will withhold monetary transfers to the fed, they will make broader use of discretionary laws and taxation powers, they will start non-cooperation on many legal matters and will take advantage of the federal government&#8217;s position of weakness to impose their state will etc.</p>
<p>This will create a disunity in policy, fiscal matters, legal matters that may or may not lead to more severe secession movements.</p>
<p>At any point, the federal government will be like a sheet ripped apart by being pulled from both sides, by prosperous states that want to keep their wealth and poor states that want to take the other state&#8217;s wealth. The federal government will lose prestige and respect and some states will start to solve litigations directly between themselves. You know you&#8217;ve lost legitimacy and standing when people start solving their own problems among themselves instead of reporting to you in case of trouble. That&#8217;s exactly what will happen in the USA.<br />
Strong states will start to solve their problems themselves, circumventing FEMA and other federal redtape and will start to make interstate arrangements without federal consultation.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the USA will break appart like Igor Panarin says, but I think that the federal government will lose a lot of power and that the USA will become more of a confederation than a federation.</p>
<p>In the end, the USA will ressemble the European Union where several interests will compete against each other under one banner instead of being into true unity.</p>
<p>States might actually start to mint their own state currency, state bonds, state vouchers, state coupons etc. And incorporate those as payments for employee benefits. At this point, the federal government will be powerless to stop this trend.</p>
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		<title>By: Freedom Fighter</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/16399/the-crime-of-private-money/comment-page-1/#comment-771453</link>
		<dc:creator>Freedom Fighter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Apr 2011 20:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=16399#comment-771453</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[North Korea went through much worse than that in the 1990&#039;s when millions of it&#039;s citizens died of starvation. Yet it still stands today. Chances are that the USA as a government entity will not be destroyed by the coming hard times, only the little people will.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>North Korea went through much worse than that in the 1990&#8242;s when millions of it&#8217;s citizens died of starvation. Yet it still stands today. Chances are that the USA as a government entity will not be destroyed by the coming hard times, only the little people will.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/16399/the-crime-of-private-money/comment-page-1/#comment-771417</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Apr 2011 17:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=16399#comment-771417</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A nasty but effective comment on value being subjective!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A nasty but effective comment on value being subjective!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: BioTube</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/16399/the-crime-of-private-money/comment-page-1/#comment-771412</link>
		<dc:creator>BioTube</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Apr 2011 17:06:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=16399#comment-771412</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Local currencies are tied to the dollar.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Local currencies are tied to the dollar.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/16399/the-crime-of-private-money/comment-page-1/#comment-771396</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Apr 2011 14:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=16399#comment-771396</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And then the problem of stopping the states from destroying themselves...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And then the problem of stopping the states from destroying themselves&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Patrick Barron</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/16399/the-crime-of-private-money/comment-page-1/#comment-771392</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Barron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Apr 2011 14:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=16399#comment-771392</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is indeed a chilling article.  The government is throwing out the rule of law in order to force us to use an ever depreciating dollar.  The Fed has been &quot;lending&quot; money illegally for years--to foreign banks, to non-Fed members, etc.  And now it shows that it is willing to brand a peaceful American citizen as a terrorist for trying to offer Americans an alternative money.  Robert Murphy has warned us.  I believe the only powers that can stop the federal government from destroying the country are the states.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is indeed a chilling article.  The government is throwing out the rule of law in order to force us to use an ever depreciating dollar.  The Fed has been &#8220;lending&#8221; money illegally for years&#8211;to foreign banks, to non-Fed members, etc.  And now it shows that it is willing to brand a peaceful American citizen as a terrorist for trying to offer Americans an alternative money.  Robert Murphy has warned us.  I believe the only powers that can stop the federal government from destroying the country are the states.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Freedom Fighter</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/16399/the-crime-of-private-money/comment-page-1/#comment-771322</link>
		<dc:creator>Freedom Fighter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2011 23:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=16399#comment-771322</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[They could be backed by the resources pool: goods and services, held by members of a bartering association.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They could be backed by the resources pool: goods and services, held by members of a bartering association.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Freedom Fighter</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/16399/the-crime-of-private-money/comment-page-1/#comment-771321</link>
		<dc:creator>Freedom Fighter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2011 23:46:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=16399#comment-771321</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The government hates gold, hates silver and hates precious metals and hard currency.

The best way to provide an alternative currency, the most innovative currency would be to do without the us dollar, to do without a currency in the first place and just barter and develop a complex bartering points system redeemable in objects held by one another.

That way, when it&#039;s time to pay your taxes, you could send 32,000 chairs to the government or 900 sofas or 90 stoves, LOL !!!!

Bartering is absolutely not illegal because there is no monetary instrument in between. It&#039;s a service for a service or a good for a good etc. The government cannot crackdown on this because there is no currency. You can ask someone to provide the service of keeping tab and accounting for the points etc.

So many people could join a resources pool and exchange points for goods and services.

An iphone application could keep tabs among members. The government would be incapable of cracking down on that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The government hates gold, hates silver and hates precious metals and hard currency.</p>
<p>The best way to provide an alternative currency, the most innovative currency would be to do without the us dollar, to do without a currency in the first place and just barter and develop a complex bartering points system redeemable in objects held by one another.</p>
<p>That way, when it&#8217;s time to pay your taxes, you could send 32,000 chairs to the government or 900 sofas or 90 stoves, LOL !!!!</p>
<p>Bartering is absolutely not illegal because there is no monetary instrument in between. It&#8217;s a service for a service or a good for a good etc. The government cannot crackdown on this because there is no currency. You can ask someone to provide the service of keeping tab and accounting for the points etc.</p>
<p>So many people could join a resources pool and exchange points for goods and services.</p>
<p>An iphone application could keep tabs among members. The government would be incapable of cracking down on that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Freedom Fighter</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/16399/the-crime-of-private-money/comment-page-1/#comment-771319</link>
		<dc:creator>Freedom Fighter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2011 23:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=16399#comment-771319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pope shit is very very scarce, only one human being among 7 billion.
By itself, pope shit is still shit. It stinks, it&#039;s disgusting, it&#039;s gross and it carries all sorts of diseases.

Yet, I&#039;m sure that if somebody were to sell a pound of pope shit on ebay and it was certified to be genuine pope shit by a Vatican appraiser, that it could sell for $40,000  LOL !!!
And if the face of the virgin Mary appears in the crevasses of the turd, like it did for someone&#039;s grilled cheese, it could be worth as high as $80,000 !!!!

It would be canonized as genuine holy shit. 

When millions of fans are ready to buy a turd at the price of gold, this goes on to show that value is SUBJECTIVE.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pope shit is very very scarce, only one human being among 7 billion.<br />
By itself, pope shit is still shit. It stinks, it&#8217;s disgusting, it&#8217;s gross and it carries all sorts of diseases.</p>
<p>Yet, I&#8217;m sure that if somebody were to sell a pound of pope shit on ebay and it was certified to be genuine pope shit by a Vatican appraiser, that it could sell for $40,000  LOL !!!<br />
And if the face of the virgin Mary appears in the crevasses of the turd, like it did for someone&#8217;s grilled cheese, it could be worth as high as $80,000 !!!!</p>
<p>It would be canonized as genuine holy shit. </p>
<p>When millions of fans are ready to buy a turd at the price of gold, this goes on to show that value is SUBJECTIVE.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: billwald</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/16399/the-crime-of-private-money/comment-page-1/#comment-770982</link>
		<dc:creator>billwald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2011 16:47:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=16399#comment-770982</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[SAY the private coinage had been in the form of small rectangular plates that looked like &quot;Monopoly&quot; money. They would be legal. The issuer could get a license from Hasbro.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SAY the private coinage had been in the form of small rectangular plates that looked like &#8220;Monopoly&#8221; money. They would be legal. The issuer could get a license from Hasbro.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/16399/the-crime-of-private-money/comment-page-1/#comment-770948</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2011 14:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=16399#comment-770948</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A serious question for Mr Murphy and others. Other currencies have been operating for years in the US. For instance, an area of Mass uses the &quot;Berkshare&quot; (see link). What is different between the Berkshare and an attempt at an alternative currency like NotHaus
http://www.berkshares.org/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A serious question for Mr Murphy and others. Other currencies have been operating for years in the US. For instance, an area of Mass uses the &#8220;Berkshare&#8221; (see link). What is different between the Berkshare and an attempt at an alternative currency like NotHaus<br />
<a href="http://www.berkshares.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.berkshares.org/</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Hard Rain</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/16399/the-crime-of-private-money/comment-page-1/#comment-770925</link>
		<dc:creator>Hard Rain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2011 11:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=16399#comment-770925</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[DW, sorry to say, but they now claim the right to tax you for 20 years, even if you renounce. Also, the process to renounce citizenship has become less expedient and more expensive. Oh, and all your current taxes have to be in order too. 

In other words, the USA has effectively become a Hotel California nation: You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DW, sorry to say, but they now claim the right to tax you for 20 years, even if you renounce. Also, the process to renounce citizenship has become less expedient and more expensive. Oh, and all your current taxes have to be in order too. </p>
<p>In other words, the USA has effectively become a Hotel California nation: You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Orlando</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/16399/the-crime-of-private-money/comment-page-1/#comment-770872</link>
		<dc:creator>Orlando</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2011 04:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=16399#comment-770872</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you fly on any COMMERCIAL AIRLINE flight and try to buy any item from the airline menu, you CANNOT use dollars, the legal tender of the USA.  This is the premise of the prosecution.  You must pay with a credit card, in fact we are post fiat money, a fiat substitution of fiat money must be used without exception.  The lawyer for Mr von NotHaus was dumber than the jury  by not putting this argument before the jury.  If a high powered libertarian lawyer cannot be bought to make a decent argument for the defense, then the premise of Austrian economics is going to be extinguished from the world we live in.  Depressing, really, for this is a staggering result, if it&#039;s not reversed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you fly on any COMMERCIAL AIRLINE flight and try to buy any item from the airline menu, you CANNOT use dollars, the legal tender of the USA.  This is the premise of the prosecution.  You must pay with a credit card, in fact we are post fiat money, a fiat substitution of fiat money must be used without exception.  The lawyer for Mr von NotHaus was dumber than the jury  by not putting this argument before the jury.  If a high powered libertarian lawyer cannot be bought to make a decent argument for the defense, then the premise of Austrian economics is going to be extinguished from the world we live in.  Depressing, really, for this is a staggering result, if it&#8217;s not reversed.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Shay</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/16399/the-crime-of-private-money/comment-page-1/#comment-770870</link>
		<dc:creator>Shay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2011 04:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=16399#comment-770870</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You assume the limitation is via trust in the system, rather than via cold, hard math. Again, read up on Bitcoin before making further assumptions about it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You assume the limitation is via trust in the system, rather than via cold, hard math. Again, read up on Bitcoin before making further assumptions about it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Anti-IP Libertarian</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/16399/the-crime-of-private-money/comment-page-1/#comment-770862</link>
		<dc:creator>Anti-IP Libertarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2011 03:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=16399#comment-770862</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There will be no safe alternate currency. The government will take of that.

So do not fall to that illusion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There will be no safe alternate currency. The government will take of that.</p>
<p>So do not fall to that illusion.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Scarcity</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/16399/the-crime-of-private-money/comment-page-1/#comment-770860</link>
		<dc:creator>Scarcity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2011 03:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=16399#comment-770860</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good luck paying your taxes in gold and silver. That&#039;s the real reason for taxes: to force you to acquire otherwise worthless paper.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good luck paying your taxes in gold and silver. That&#8217;s the real reason for taxes: to force you to acquire otherwise worthless paper.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Bennet Cecil</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/16399/the-crime-of-private-money/comment-page-1/#comment-770859</link>
		<dc:creator>Bennet Cecil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2011 02:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=16399#comment-770859</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[States could charter bullion banks. Savers could deposit or withdraw their gold and silver along with US currency. The bullion bank could buy and sell silver and gold collecting fees as well as charge for storage and checking services. Bullion banks would not make loans and would have 100% reserves. They would be audited and have private insurance. FDIC and the Fed would not be involved at all. 

Americans could defeat the Fed and the statists by moving their money out of the fractional reserve banks into safe bullion banks. This is perfectly legal and no one can be prosecuted for counterfeiting. As the Fed prints more dollars, Americans will convert dollars into silver and gold. They will learn that the dollar is a piece of paper and not money.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>States could charter bullion banks. Savers could deposit or withdraw their gold and silver along with US currency. The bullion bank could buy and sell silver and gold collecting fees as well as charge for storage and checking services. Bullion banks would not make loans and would have 100% reserves. They would be audited and have private insurance. FDIC and the Fed would not be involved at all. </p>
<p>Americans could defeat the Fed and the statists by moving their money out of the fractional reserve banks into safe bullion banks. This is perfectly legal and no one can be prosecuted for counterfeiting. As the Fed prints more dollars, Americans will convert dollars into silver and gold. They will learn that the dollar is a piece of paper and not money.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: GSL</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/16399/the-crime-of-private-money/comment-page-1/#comment-770841</link>
		<dc:creator>GSL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2011 01:02:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=16399#comment-770841</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s sort of my point. The only way of funding a Pecunix account is by buying gold through an exchange provider, so it seems to get around the &quot;fictional money&quot; problem. I&#039;m the guy who hadn&#039;t heard of Bitcoin until just now, not the guy defending it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s sort of my point. The only way of funding a Pecunix account is by buying gold through an exchange provider, so it seems to get around the &#8220;fictional money&#8221; problem. I&#8217;m the guy who hadn&#8217;t heard of Bitcoin until just now, not the guy defending it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Inquisitor</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/16399/the-crime-of-private-money/comment-page-1/#comment-770840</link>
		<dc:creator>Inquisitor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2011 00:59:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=16399#comment-770840</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gold is valued independently of whether one pays taxes with it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gold is valued independently of whether one pays taxes with it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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