I know this observation is ridiculously aggregated, but when you take a coast-to-coast flight it is impossible not notice that the vast amount of land space is the U.S. is completely empty. You would swear that the country was an uninhabited wasteland. Then you reflect on the immigration debate and get the strong impression that we are fighting for room to breath around here. It’s just a strange dichotomy. It’s one thing for Japan to worry about immigration, or Switzerland, or even Austria. But the U.S.? There are other factors, I know, but it’s probably true that 10 times the world population could live comfortably in the U.S.. The immigration debate is really about other things: fights over voting blocs, for example. Without labor unions, public infrastructure, and political parties, I don’t know why anyone would even care about immigration.
David Veksler, the technical mastermind behind Mises.org, recently went to work in Shanghai, China, and there’s nothing like a move like this to inspire a fundamental rethinking. Let me share with you his facebook update from this morning:
After living in China, I am convinced that the only real advantage America has over other countries is its historical openness toward immigrants. Once that ends (and I am thinking of the potential end of birthright citizenship) the United States will quickly sink into the muck of welfare-statism and never be heard from again.
Great update, and one wishes that all such status updates were as provocative and interesting. I’m sure he never expected it to turn up on the Mises blog. But it does make one wonder: have we properly valued the contribution that immigration makes to the U.S. economy and culture? I mean, I look around at the native bourgeoisie in this country and see incredible dependency, sloth, debt, and the absence of the enterprising spirit of 19th century legend. But you look at the immigrant classes and you see the opposite. Again, wild generalizations of course. But David’s comment taps into enough intuition I have developed from casual observation to make me wonder.
Before you post about the high costs of immigration, consider these two posts by Carden: costs and benefits.
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81 Responses
Jeff,
It seems clear that resistance to immigration by those already here has nothing to do with physical room, and everything to do with “I’ve got mine, you get yours somewhere else”.
There is no doubt in my mind as I look around my Silicon Valley workplace at my colleagues that at least in places like here, we have greatly benefited from a relatively open immigration policy, and would lose if that changed.
And I suspect that is actually true most everywhere in the US.
Great article, fears of immigration are just another tool used by the unions and the political parties to divide and impoverish Americans. Glad to see such a logical view being expressed.
Indeed. You could literally sell the couch and chair in the your living room and end up with enough money to buy an acre of land in many states. There’s lots of land in the US and it’s not all worth much (except to the guy who lives on it).
Immigration is nothing less than the welfare state enlarging its constituency. Your friend could not be more wrong.
Population density is low in Nevada for a pretty obvious reason: it’s mostly desert. Lots of people avoid the Midwest because it’s flat, landlocked and the Mississippi River regularly overflows its banks. (Thus being more useful as farmland). Superficial analysis by you.
After living in China, I am convinced that the only real advantage America has over other countries is its historical openness toward immigrants.
Does it occur to him that the advantage America has over other countries is its people, and that pre-1965 immigration policy reflected this fact? Do you really think it doesn’t matter who we import?
Are you saying pre-1965 immigration policy was good? If it wasn’t for the removal of this policy I really don’t believe the US would have experience its “growth” in the 1990s; primarily due to the immigrants from Asia. It was the removal of the so-called 2% rule that allowed large numbers of individuals of advanced degrees from India, China, Japan and elsewhere to come here and further their education through student visas and work visas. These educated individuals led the revolution on entrepreneurship (by industry standards; South Asians represent 1% of the population yet more than 50% of the hotel business, gas stations and convenience stores), technological revolutions in both computer hardware and software and other white collar jobs.
To say the pre-1965 immigration policy was good is entirely ignorant of what might have never occurred.
“Do you really think it doesn’t matter who we import?”
And who, in your great wisdom, should “we” import.? And by we, I assume you speak for every one in the country, as you clearly are the owner of America’s borders. I appreciate your differing opinion, but it seems to be based on, well, nothing.
“we import”. Don’t give yourself so much credit. People choose to live here, and to the extent it helps us (and when hard-working, hungry people move here and produce, it certainly helps us), fantastic; but more importantly, it’s not really your business who chooses to live here, is it?
Do you allow whoever so desires to enter your house?
We let in Wahabbist Muslims–how’s that worked out?
People don’t fear immigration because of limited physical space–it’s much more irrational than that. But of course, they never seem to understand that a crazy-quilt patchwork immigration policy is the best thing for politicians who want to hand out favors, because they can offer both restrictions and greater numbers to different constituents and special interests. It’s not in the politicians’ interests to have either a tight, closed immigration policy OR a wide-open, let-anybody-come policy.
Of course it’s my business. If MS-13 is taking root in my neighborhood then I have a really big problem with that. If you’re going to chain-migrate all your aging relatives and get them on Medicaid/Medicare, then you need to answer to me as one of the people tasked with funding it.
The country is empty and it would be awesome to fill it up with lots of cool immigrants from different parts of the world. But demographics is destiny. Switzerland is what it is for a reason, just as Haiti is what it is for a reason. Millions of one or the other will be the true determinant of prosperity and freedom (all else being equal).
Anyway, I hope China opens its borders and lets guys like me in. I hear the KFC’s there are off-the-hook.
Growth for the sake of growth is pointless. Liberia is having a population boom.
Do you really think there was no such thing as motels, convenience stores or gas stations prior to the 1990′s?
Those problems that can reasonably be said to be exacerbated by greater immigration are, at their root, problems caused by the government.
Fix the government caused problems, or (better) put the gov. in it’s proper place, and the “problems” of immigration would vanish. Increased crime is a gov. problem, financial strain on schools and other public services is a gov. problem, unemployment is a gov. caused problem, and perhaps the best argument against immigration, namely what kind of politicians these folks might vote into office and what kind of bad policies they might support, ceases to be relevant at all in a world where individuals may go about their lives without worrying what the gov. will do next.
Your assessment is so true. Just flying from Phoenix to California, as I often used to do, I had the very same thought. So much empty, uninhabited space in an area that is small compared to the whole of the U.S.
Your comment about immigrants is also true…I have a friend who works for a Chinese outfit. She works six days a week ten to twelve hours a day. She’s salaried so no overtime.
I look around at the native bourgeoisie in this country and see incredible dependency, sloth, debt, and…
I take a very grand view that everyone wants to participate and contribute. People stop doing so when the rewards of work are no longer apparent either because their effort is not recognized or because they can’t get ahead through their effort. Most people I know it’s the latter. I believe that the value of money has deep psychology and sociological consequences.
In a society that has a sound currency, (stable or slightly deflationary) work has value. People can get ahead through work. Working two jobs makes sense. In an inflationary society, like the US, you won’t get ahead through work. To get ahead you have to speculate (i.e. gambling, stock mkt, lotto etc. or take on risky loans). The value of work diminishes. Eventually, people (consciously or unconsciously) just give up.
I believe Americans are some of the hardest working people in the world but if our gov’t doesn’t value work (i.e. currency devaluation/inflation, restrictive wage and labor laws, income taxation, bailing out investment banks etc.) Why should we be so surprised that “dependency, sloth, debt…” is becoming the norm.
Growth to improve the economy, on the other hand, might be worthwhile. Or do really believe the economy can improve with less division-of-labor instead of more?
Eliminate government and people will be either owners, licensees or trespassers. That’s why immigrants who can’t avail themselves of the government’s roads and its due process protections end up getting shot as trespassers or dying in the high desert or at sea.
You’re confusing the borders of your property with the illegitimate “borders” of the US Gangsterment’s territory.
Those criminals in Washington don’t actually own any of those “borders,” and neither they nor you have the right to tell me who I can hire, rent to, sell too, or do anything else with that has nothing to do with you or your property.
Cute little blog entry – something I would expect on the blog of a naive college sophomore. The core point of the immigration debate is the (essentially) wide open southwestern border and relative ease of criminals (and their contraband) entering this country. I personally support a very open immigration policy (for me a simple background check would be enough – with a keep your nose clean provision when they get here), and think that workers should be welcomed in this country with open arms. BUT they must come here legally and the borders should be as secure as possible.
More people doesn’t mean more wealth or even more division of labour.
Which would you gamble your capital on: 1,000 Swiss or 100,000 Liberians?
I’ll bet you there are more gangsters in the United States with US citizenship than without, yet you aren’t advocating deporting Americans.
And it seems like your second point would lead one to question the legitimacy of medicaid/medicare rather than immigration.
and neither they nor you have the right to tell me who I can hire, rent to, sell too, or do anything else with that has nothing to do with you or your property.
Of course. In anarcho Petri-dish land that’s always the case. Roads, sewers, power grids, property values, culture, public order, etc. don’t exist.
Which American gangsters? I bet you I don’t object to them being deported.
It’s kind of hard to battle the welfare state when it can use immigration to enlarge its constituency.
“Which American gangsters? I bet you I don’t object to them being deported.”
All of them. In an article about immigration you brought up a specific Latino gang, which to me implies that you find there to be a strong correlation between immigration and gang issues. But there are millions of gangsters who have never been outside the US.
“It’s kind of hard to battle the welfare state when it can use immigration to enlarge its constituency.”
Right. That’s a problem. But you aren’t here commenting on the welfare state; you’re talking about immigration. But why? It’s a problem when ANYbody mooches and bleeds the system by getting more than they paid into it; sure some of those people are illegal aliens, but many, again, are natural born US citizens who don’t work and who never pay taxes. But you aren’t talking about deporting them (though let me guess, you wouldn’t be against it).
My point with both of those is that you’re focusing on the wrong thing. Gangs are a problem, and some gang members are immigrants, so we should deport the immigrants! People who take advantage of the system are a problem, and some are immigrants. Let’s deport them! Or how bout we just agree that the problem is the welfare state and an inadequate enforcement of property rights and be done with it.
i think universal suffrage is the major problem with the open borders argument, along with anti-discrimination/affirmative action legislation. i’m in the anti-gnostic, hoppean camp on this one. culture is something that can’t be dismissed as irrelevant. multiculturalism is a historically recent, statist experiment.
here’s a good documentary for all the rednecks out there:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1451035544403625746#
It is hard to immigrate legally when it is nearly illegal to immigrate. Current legal immigration methods require ignoring America’s faults and indoctrination just to acquire citizenship. Why must we assume those who are crossing the border of nefarious intent? By making the (Southwestern) border difficult to cross, we aid the coyotes (often connected with the cartels) who take advantage of poor workers who are just looking for work. The net results are excessive hardships for those normal people who just want to provide for their family.
Naive College Sophomore,
JMH
unimpeded trade can also access all the benefits of the international division of labour.
I look around at the native bourgeoisie in this country and see incredible dependency, sloth, debt, and…
I’ve noticed this theme from Jeffrey Tucker. In all fairness to him, he does admit in this post that it’s a “wild generalization”. Yet I read over and over again here about the problems the state is creating, taxes, the foolishness of empire, etc… but then Tucker complains that people aren’t working hard enough in/for that empire… even though he despises that empire.
That said, your rebuttal to that is very well put. The value of work has been diminished. The value of small business ownership or entrepreneurship has been diminished. The value of saving a dollar is diminished. And when you see how much production is stolen by taxation and then what that money is used for (war, drug war, TSA, bailouts… ) then why should anyone work very hard for that regime?
I suppose if we were living in a libertarian world and people were still behaving like “reverts”, then Tucker would have a good point. But we’re not living in that world. So, why should people work hard now?
Many of the hard working immigrants Tucker mentions are “illegal”. There are some benefits to this, for those immigrants. Illegal immigrants are free to negotiate their wages and can provide their labor for less if they choose to. I don’t know for certain, but I wouldn’t be surprised if their biggest worry about the state probably isn’t taxation, marijuana policy, individual mandates, or the TSA but is instead INS. Compare that to the U.S. citizen who doesn’t have to worry about INS but isn’t free to offer lower wage rates and has to worry about IRS, TSA, DEA, ATF, FBI, DHS, FTC, SEC, FCC, and countless other agencies and local/state regulations or laws that “legitimate” immigrants and citizens have to deal with and pay an enormous amount for. I think a case can be made that so-called illegal immigrants are considerably more free than the U.S. citizen and that has a lot to do with the enterprising spirit of some immigrants.
i’d also recommend this podcast by hoppe. he doesn’t discount the role that biology may have played in peculiar success of the west:
http://mises.org/media/4691/Necessary-and-Sufficient-Causes-of-the-Industrial-Revolution-Some-Critical-Remarks-on-Mises-and-His-Explanation
and for those whose appetite is whetted:
http://www.toqonline.com/archives/v2n2/TOQv2n2MacDonald.pdf
There isn’t a strong correlation between gang activity and immigration. Gang activity is strongly correlated around the drug trade. And we all have a darn good idea of how to kick that problem in the teeth, and it doesn’t involve the Berlin Wall between the US and Mexico.
Newson, my ancestors fled Bavaria shortly after the Prussians centralized control into a unified state. Bismarck didn’t think those backwards Catholics near the Alps fit in with the Kulturkampf. You make a profound mistake in assuming there is any sort of national character. Lifestyles change, to meet the variable economic conditions; and there is no economic argument against the free movement of persons and property. Culture is a caricature… It is a generalization, a stereotype.
To begin with we have too many people all ready; we have had for quite sometime. Water shortages in some areas is apparently nearing a crisis point. Water pollution has reached a level unthinkable 50 years ago. The list of shortages and the list of population problems is certain to grow. Comments about all the open space are utterly silly nonsense.
While I doubt immigration has ever truly benefited the original population anywhere at any time, that may at least be open to debate. What is not seriously debatable is that white culture and the white race are being literally exterminated and any argument to the contrary can only be specious. If you consider that good then please have the decency to be honest about it.
One of those facts of culture some of you so despise is what was the white culture of hard work, personal responsibility, adherence to a standard of conduct which enhanced life rather than grossly interfered with it. For decades now whites have been put to every difficulty possible, while non-whites and immigrants have been showered with every possible blessing. Most of those formerly owned white businesses now owned by immigrants were bought with grants or very low interest loans, grants and interest paid largely by the white Americans they’re intended to dispossess.
Now you’re getting it!
i don’t think i mentioned national character. i do think, however, that culture is not something that just springs out of nowhere, not a caricature. nor do i exclude that environment might have favoured certain features, traits, etc. over others, in the course of countless generations. hoppe addresses this in the podcast i linked, and points out that it was missed by rothbard and mises
REALITY CHECK for David Veksler and any other daydreaming ideologue who is falling in love with the new paradise of capitalism called China:
Inside China’s Richest Village
Unique approach, indeed. So, are you still enamoured of the glorious capitalistic renaissance of China? If so, here’s another telling article. Pay attention, now, or you might miss the telling details:
17 Facts About China That Will Blow Your Mind
Slide 9 of 19:
“Entire cities that are empty”?? Who is building all those completely empty homes and cities? How is the construction being financed? Could it be by public-private partnerships? One should not have to explain for the fans of Murray Rothbard how a central bank would be useful for that means.
See also slide 16 of 19 about “Kang Zhongwen, who designed the Jinguan Automobile death van”. Suffice it to say, the LvMI’s “technical mastermind ” is an oblivious computer nerd who’s foolish just to infer, not to mention to write, “that the only real advantage America has over other countries [e.g. China] is its historical openness toward immigrants”. There aren’t any death vans roaming the USA in search of criminals to execute, though I suppose there are plenty of Democrats and Republicans who would support their manufacture if selling death vans to the government would bring jobs to their districts.
At any rate, never mind the open, unpopulated spaces in N. America or the heated debate in the USA about immigration. At the very least Americans, whatever their many faults, are mere pikers in comparison to the communistic organized crime racket that is hard at work throughout in China and so very popular with China’s go-getter class. However, Americans do have, I suspect, a culture with enough inertia, built up over centuries, not only to prevent the disaster that facts on the ground suggest are awaiting the Chinese but also to preclude the very possibility of ghost cities that have never been populated. After all, for how long can you go building empty cities before the bill comes due yet remains unpayable, not to mention before it becomes clear that the ghost cities aren’t sustainable without the shenanigans that were used to build them in the first place?
On the other hand, Americans do have Barack “Winning the Future” Obama and his knavish cravings for make-work schemes which, if tolerated as long as the New Deal has been tolerated, might–might–lead to the situation that we find in China. Americans also have plenty of hollow, plastic, grandstanding tools like the guy who gave the Republican’s response to Barry’s recent SOTU address. You know the one; he invoked “the Lord” and repeated talking point about limited government.
That stated, can any intelligent, alert person actually believe that the Chinese people have the same or similar potential for antistatist reform as do Americans? I say no. Immigration, if it be an asset at all for Americans, is an asset because of the potential to skim the world of cream that longs more for liberty than for mere glutting of the senses with the fruits of production. But that potential does not exist because of immigration, per se, but rather because of ideas that imported by immigrants or that were developed in America.
the times i’ve been to bavaria i’ve always been very gratified by stereotypes. things run on time, and the streets are not littered!
Too many people?! Says who? There’s a galaxy of resources for human ingenuity to tap.
As for the poor whites, they clearly believe there are “too many people” and have lived up to their “personal responsibility” by not reproducing as much. Where’s the problem?
>>Of course. In anarcho Petri-dish land that’s always the case. Roads, sewers, power grids, property values, culture, public order, etc. don’t exist.
>>Roads, sewers, power grids, property values, culture, public order, etc. don’t exist.
>>don’t exist
LOL! Read more Mises.
Ultimately, though, people’s concern over immigration isn’t irrational, particularly if they are concerned about national culture. And if a state is going to exist, it would have the moral duty to seek the long-term best interests of the people residing therein. That said, doing away with the state would cause all the relevant problems to disappear.
I’ve always said, the solution for the US housing crises would be to open the immigration flood-gates which would allow millions of people to use new-founded freedoms to create wealth that never existed before and fill up millions of vacant homes.
One more thing. I’ve lived in immigrant neighborhoods, and specifically remember mornings where the immigrants were waiting at the food marts to be picked up for work, while the white people were sitting at the freeway entrance with signs asking for handouts. I know for a fact, almost nobody comes here for the welfare and entitlements.
Thomas Jefferson has some good quotes about immigration attributed to him. Even he makes the point that immigrants were going to be necessary, but they must be on the same page regarding what had been created in America.
The Mexicans protesting last year about AZ immigration laws are probably not Misesians.
If needed, I have no problem with educated immigrants that will come here and comply with most of our BS laws and regulations (many of which need to be abolished) and can create new businesses.
As for white people standing out with signs, there are bottom feeders in every group. However, I don’t believe this nonsense that their are jobs that Americans won’t do. They just won’t do them for the slave wages being offered.
“However, I don’t believe this nonsense that their are jobs that Americans won’t do. They just won’t do them for the slave wages being offered.”
RIght. But immigrants are often willing to do those jobs that are both distasteful/painful and pay relatively low wages (read: more efficiently than most white people would do them)
um…not sure what happened up there. I promise what I said was brilliant though.
You gotta try Indian KFC and McDonalds too.
as line in the sand makes quite clear, homeland security is not in the slightest bit interested in border control. more interested in spying on minutemen than directing their formidable resources to the very issue that gives rise to popular initiatives. quién semina vientos recoje tempestades.
I believe private property owners in Libertopia are required to create an easement as it is offensive to landlock other people.
Talperion,
Your ancestors didn’t flee Bavaria, they chose to leave. Besides, compared to the United States, unified Germany was remarkably decentralized. Bavaria, even under modern Germany / Prussian Empire post 1871, had it’s own foreign minister. Good luck having Texas set up an embassy in Paris.
If your ancestors were fleeing centralization, hindsight shows that they would have been wiser to have steered clear of the US.
To suggest that culture is a caricature is absurd. Are you suggesting that there is no commonly shared cuisine, or religious, musical, celebratory, linguistic, architectural, dress, or other traditions that encompass culture? If so you are deplorably unobservant or plainly ignorant.
No, a legal citizen cannot perform those jobs because the market clearing rate for them is well below the established minimum wage. This is where the illegal immigration comes into play, it’s capable of flying under the radar of the national authorities and fill a needed service at a price that it’s worth.
Look I agree there’s plenty of work to do in China; but you have to see where people are making the most money, their population and their room for growth. These reasons are the same for other developing countries like India, and Brazil. People don’t deny China has its problems; but if I had a choice to put $100,000,000,000 somewhere; I would place it in developing countries because my return would be greater.
Immigration Benefits Classical Liberalism Societies.
Limited immigration will be one of the mangement tools in classical liberalism societies, differentiating themselves from others. Freedom to enter and exit will be evidence of a society that is moderately governed by the principles of liberty and justice. Those societies that are prosperous will attract people and therefore will require taking steps to insure that productive people immigrate while those societies that are not prosperous due to ego-driven interventionism will have to restrict emigration of productive people by imposing oppressive measures, thereby advertising their backwardness.
i don’t think ignorance was behind the 1924 laws. fear of political radicalism was more likely.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCSeSOVCfkk
Great article.
Anti-Gnostic
I wouldn’t gamble on you, that’s for certain.
As far as immigration is concerned, what business is it of yours anyway? Your property ends at the tip of your nose or, assuming you own your own home, at the fence. If someone else attracts an immigrant to live on his property, or even to purchse it, you have no business interfering.
Sione
I agree with you! “Do you really think it doesn’t matter who we import?” It dose who we import. Back in the late 19th and early 20th century there was not federal welfare and those who immigrated depended upon themselves and friends for support if needed. But in the 1930s federal welfare was started and expanded until the 1990 by the democrats and they used it to improve their electability. Now so many families have grown upon welfare that to many people cannot servive with it. If you to return this nation to its greatness that it once had make welfare hard to get and require to be more self dependent.
Culture is the set of habits and behavioural norms that people may engage in. It is a set of ideas that are commonly known and accepted in a location by many of the people resident in that location. It is fluid and changable (with startling rapidity in some situations). It does not define an individual or his identity.
It is interesting to consder what happens should cultural stereotypes define the individual. That would result in a situation where North Americans must be accepted as necessarily being violent, drug addicted, alcoholic, sex obsessed deviants, child molesters, war mongers, torturers, corrupt, fraudulent, dishonest, emotionally crippled, morbidly obese, insecure, insincere, lazy, self-indulgent, hypocritical and profoundly ignorant of anything that occurs outside the county in which they reside. Besides all that they would all be socialists. That’s exactly the snapshot of North American culture conveyed by North American TV shows.
I have met North Americans who possess none of those characteristics, even though it would appear that many others do. Lesson is to judge each according to his real nature and actual attributes.
Sione
“can any intelligent, alert person actually believe that the Chinese people have the same or similar potential for antistatist reform as do Americans?”
Yes.
The Chinese certainly do have the same potential for anti-statist reform as do North Americans. Whether that potential is able to be realised or not depends upon what ideas they adopt and act by. The present USA is not a good example to emulate. Perhaps leading Chinese thinkers will learn from it and help avoid the pitfalls.
What you need to learn is that North America is not exceptional. American exceptionalism is a myth. The residents of North America, including the USA, are not a superior form of life to other human beings.
Sione
hollywood has its own particular agenda and does indeed push the stereotypes you’ve mentioned.
http://is.gd/y0srrb
If Drs. Rand and/or Ron Paul are assassinated, I will place the blame directly at the doorstep of the Mises Institute.
“Immigration refers to the movement of people between countries. While the
movement of people has existed throughout human history at various levels,
modern immigration implies long-term, legal, permanent residence. Short-term
visitors and tourists are considered non-immigrants (see expatriate).
Immigration across national borders in a way that violates the immigration
laws of the destination country is termed illegal immigration.”
“Illegal immigration refers to immigration across national borders in a way
that violates the immigration laws of the destination country. Under this
definition, an illegal immigrant is a foreigner who either has illegally
crossed an international political border, be it by land, water, or air, or
a foreigner who has entered a country legally but then overstays his/her
visa. ”
Border Invasion
Thousands of individuals from foreign countries walk unchallenged across our
southern border every day. We don’t know who they are, where they come from,
or their intentions. It is an invasion by definition, and our government
condones it.
This website presents current and undeniable documentation.
http://www.borderinvasionpics.com/
See the difference?
California has, by far, the largest immigrant population of all the states. It is also a fiscal basket case with declining schools and net domestic outmigration (that is, Americans are leaving it, despite the beautiful weather).
Between 1922 and 1968, the era of tightly restricted immigration (and Operation Wetback), the US grew into an industrial superpower with a huge middle class. Since 1975, when the current immigration flood started, real wages have been stagnant, house prices/rents have skyrocketed, schools have gotten worse, etc etc.
You do the math.
Silicon Valley was much more revolutionary before the immigrant wave. Compare the groundbreaking work of Apple or Microsoft with Google or Facebook. Compare the foundations of the internet (circa 1971) with, what, the USB port?
Fact is, the immigrants to silicon valley are just another cheap labor force.
Since when do immigrants live on the property of those who attract them here? This isn’t the feudal age. Immigrants use public services — roads, fire and police protection, above all schools for their children. As a community, we have a right to say how many we admit, and from where.
Libertarianism==Applied autism
Well, seeing as how they have had a hugely ‘statist’ society for 2500 years, I think experience weighs against you.
Libertarianism==Applied Autism
“Are you saying pre-1965 immigration policy was good? If it wasn’t for the removal of this policy I really don’t believe the US would have experience its “growth” in the 1990s; ”
Yup, because during the restricted immigration era we had our own endogenously generated growth. Including biological, see ‘the Baby Boom’, made possible by low rent and high wages , two things mass immigration destroys. And, BTW, Silicon Valley itself was founded during that era, and Microsoft and Apple were founded at a time when the immigrant population was at an all time low.
Say it five times to yourself. “No correlation between technical advancement and immigration”
Silicon Valley, founded by white guys from the midwest, had its heyday back when the immigrant population of the country was down to aroudn 4%.
But sure, spokeo.com compares to the founding of Apple — right….
You may not have noticed, but immigrants don’t settle in the Great Basin or Montana. They settle in crowded areas along the coast
For people who pride themselves on economic knowledge, you libertarians seem to have forgotten about ‘opportunity cost’. Sure Americans have moved out of some areas of technology, why compete with a $40,000 coder when you can be a writer (protected by your facility with English from most immigrant competition) or a lawyer (protected by teh state from most immigrant competition).
I believe the Computer Science enrollment figures reflect those incentives.
You may not have noticed this, but the ‘Hispanic’ politicians put into office by the ‘Hispanic’ children of ‘Hispanic’ immigrants tend to vote for more government programs. And why not? They are poor (and kept poor by continual immigration).
More Hispanics==More government
Libertarianism == Applied Austism
“just as Haiti is what it is for a reason.”
No, no no, its that way because the Haitians haven’t read ‘The Fountainhead’
LOL
Indians are smart, they essentially have a ‘brown India’ policy. You don’t have ancestors who were born in Indian, you don’t get to immigrate. If you do, it is very easy to get an 11 year residence/work permit.
Now there is some innovation we could adopt to our profit.
China has Sinkiang, Tibet, the Gobi Desert and Inner Mongolia. Empty empty space, because no one wants to live in a dessert.
What a bunch of BS.
I suppose you haven’t read about the Towel of Babel?
Wow! 10 times the world’s poplation could comfortably live in the U.S. That’s over 60 billion people. I don’t which is which is dumber. Making that statement, or printing it in a newspaper. I guess anything is acceptable in the quest for no borders…no USA.
James Miller
New York, NY
Apparently they feel there’s someone somewhere stupid enough to believe anything they say, regardless of how idiotic. Take your support anywhere you can find it, I guess…
What the Local News Doesn’t Show You
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_ScYY__oyk&feature=PlayList&p=19B5A619CE26C5A4&index=56&playnext=2&playnext_from=PL
United States Population Counter
http://www.superteachertools.com/classroom-tools/popclock/uspop.php
American Workers Continue to Pick up Jobs Left Vacant by Immigration Raids
A new report in USA Today finds that unemployed U.S. citizens continue to
fill up jobs left vacant by immigration raids, particularly at meatpacking
and poultry plants. The reports says that plants impacted by the raids were
back up and running at full capacity within months of the raids.
Vanderbilt University professor Carol Swain said the raids were beneficial
to the American workforce.
“Whenever there’s an immigration raid, you find white, black and legal
immigrant labor lining up to do those jobs that Americans will supposedly
not do,” Prof. Swain said in the USA Today article.
The USA Today report cites a study conducted by Steven Camarota at the
Center for Immigration Studies that found Americans holding the majority of
positions in fields that many claim are dominated by illegal aliens.
For more on this story, see USA Today.
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/news/september-15-2009/american-workers-continue-pick-jobs-left-vacant-immigration-raids.html?jid=257754&lid=9&rid=2348&tid=483228
funny how enoch powell has ended up in the libertarian oubliette, notwithstanding his credentials (note his inclusion in this hayek anthology). cultural marxism is so deeply entrenched in the west that his reputation is still stigmatized.
http://is.gd/NWyjPi
World Population Facts
For the first time in history over half the global population lives in urban
areas. By 2050, the population of the fifty poorest countries is projected
to more than double, while Europe will shrink. Africa and Asia estimate
increases of over one billion, while persons aged 60 and over are expected
to triple during the next forty years.
http://show.mappingworlds.com/world/?lang=EN
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United States Population Counter
http://www.superteachertools.com/classroom-tools/popclock/uspop.php
Everyone tends to vote for more government programs.
“Why should someone work hard now?”
If you’re really advocating going on strike in your renumerated career, then you should at least work like a dog for cultural change.
The US gets 10 Million applications for immigration each year. It accepts only a small part of those.
The entire work force of the US could be replaced for $0.20 on the dollar. The legal right to work in the US is the most valuable asset most Americans have-or will ever have. That is far more valuable than their homes or stock portfolios.
The benefits of immigration tend to be restricted to a wealthy minority-who own enough property that matters more to them than their wages.