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	<title>Comments on: Bernanke and the pension crisis</title>
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	<link>http://archive.mises.org/15329/bernanke-and-the-pension-crisis/</link>
	<description>Proceeding Ever More Boldly Against Evil</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 23 May 2013 10:40:42 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Curly</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/15329/bernanke-and-the-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-753400</link>
		<dc:creator>Curly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2011 22:45:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=15329#comment-753400</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No, It don&#039;t discourage lending if there is a reason to borrow. But with so many out of work and the additional cost of doing business and the lack of markets most could not qualify for a loan nor do they have a good prospect of paying the loan back. 
With the policies that this government has followed for the last half century which has driven most production jobs overseas there is not much of a prospect of well paying unless you work for the government for some of the financial companies ore some unions. Go to work for the government (union) retire early fifty, start collecting retirement, get another job from the government work to 60&#039;s retire and draw a second retirement and get medical insurance out of this world that no small company can come any where matching.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, It don&#8217;t discourage lending if there is a reason to borrow. But with so many out of work and the additional cost of doing business and the lack of markets most could not qualify for a loan nor do they have a good prospect of paying the loan back.<br />
With the policies that this government has followed for the last half century which has driven most production jobs overseas there is not much of a prospect of well paying unless you work for the government for some of the financial companies ore some unions. Go to work for the government (union) retire early fifty, start collecting retirement, get another job from the government work to 60&#8242;s retire and draw a second retirement and get medical insurance out of this world that no small company can come any where matching.</p>
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		<title>By: ABR</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/15329/bernanke-and-the-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-752263</link>
		<dc:creator>ABR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jan 2011 21:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=15329#comment-752263</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is a way to make these pension funds viable. [Though the public ones are outright theft and should be abolished, anyway.] Which is to apply actuarial principles to the payouts.

A pensioner would no longer be &#039;guaranteed&#039; to receive a set amount. The amount he would receive per month would depend on the present value of the fund, the number of pensioners, the number of contributors, and the closeness to retirement age of the contributors.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a way to make these pension funds viable. [Though the public ones are outright theft and should be abolished, anyway.] Which is to apply actuarial principles to the payouts.</p>
<p>A pensioner would no longer be &#8216;guaranteed&#8217; to receive a set amount. The amount he would receive per month would depend on the present value of the fund, the number of pensioners, the number of contributors, and the closeness to retirement age of the contributors.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ABR</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/15329/bernanke-and-the-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-752262</link>
		<dc:creator>ABR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jan 2011 20:59:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=15329#comment-752262</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;From Germany, France, England to the USA, all social security is underfunded and will cost much more to the world governments than all wars fought to date.&quot; -- My understanding is that social security in the US (and other countries) is not funded by a separate account. There is no SS account.

Thus, as others have pointed out earlier, the &#039;money&#039; people put into the &#039;fund&#039; disappeared immediately into general revenues. The &#039;fund&#039; is just a tax.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;From Germany, France, England to the USA, all social security is underfunded and will cost much more to the world governments than all wars fought to date.&#8221; &#8212; My understanding is that social security in the US (and other countries) is not funded by a separate account. There is no SS account.</p>
<p>Thus, as others have pointed out earlier, the &#8216;money&#8217; people put into the &#8216;fund&#8217; disappeared immediately into general revenues. The &#8216;fund&#8217; is just a tax.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/15329/bernanke-and-the-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-752090</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jan 2011 04:16:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=15329#comment-752090</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And how exactly does one ensure that the pension is &quot;well managed&quot;?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And how exactly does one ensure that the pension is &#8220;well managed&#8221;?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ray Rock</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/15329/bernanke-and-the-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-752068</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Rock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jan 2011 01:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=15329#comment-752068</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There’s probably not much we can do except  wait for the fiscal day of reckoning to arrive, which it surely will.  

They were in denial about the automaker’s economic woes until the situation became so dire they could no longer ignore it, the same will happen here. Until borrowing becomes cost prohibitive and the Ponzi scheme called social security implodes there’s not a lot we can do.

We never have the political will in this country to act on anything that negatively affects voters until the problem is so big that it can no longer be ignored.

I for one cannot not wait until the fiscal day of reckoning arrives.  Then all the sacred cows and special interest and welfare minded constituents will finally be told NO! in no uncertain terms.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There’s probably not much we can do except  wait for the fiscal day of reckoning to arrive, which it surely will.  </p>
<p>They were in denial about the automaker’s economic woes until the situation became so dire they could no longer ignore it, the same will happen here. Until borrowing becomes cost prohibitive and the Ponzi scheme called social security implodes there’s not a lot we can do.</p>
<p>We never have the political will in this country to act on anything that negatively affects voters until the problem is so big that it can no longer be ignored.</p>
<p>I for one cannot not wait until the fiscal day of reckoning arrives.  Then all the sacred cows and special interest and welfare minded constituents will finally be told NO! in no uncertain terms.</p>
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		<title>By: J Cuttance</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/15329/bernanke-and-the-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-752049</link>
		<dc:creator>J Cuttance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jan 2011 23:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=15329#comment-752049</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[agreed, but what can we do beyond unloading on blogs?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>agreed, but what can we do beyond unloading on blogs?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: J Cuttance</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/15329/bernanke-and-the-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-752047</link>
		<dc:creator>J Cuttance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jan 2011 23:05:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=15329#comment-752047</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[doesn&#039;t it make you want to scream

public service salaries should be published with the liability of their annuities included

then we can watch them scream]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>doesn&#8217;t it make you want to scream</p>
<p>public service salaries should be published with the liability of their annuities included</p>
<p>then we can watch them scream</p>
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		<title>By: Cybertarian</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/15329/bernanke-and-the-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-752007</link>
		<dc:creator>Cybertarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:02:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=15329#comment-752007</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Low rates encourage the destruction of capital.
Instead, we should encourage the building and accumulation of capital.
Only free market driven rates can encourage the building of wealth.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Low rates encourage the destruction of capital.<br />
Instead, we should encourage the building and accumulation of capital.<br />
Only free market driven rates can encourage the building of wealth.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Cybertarian</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/15329/bernanke-and-the-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-752002</link>
		<dc:creator>Cybertarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jan 2011 17:51:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=15329#comment-752002</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The pension plan is the most unfunded and ruinous program of all the &quot;developed&quot; world.

From Germany, France, England to the USA, all social security is underfunded and will cost much more to the world governments than all wars fought to date.

Simply put, it&#039;s a generational ponzi scheme that has come to it&#039;s death and there is no way that this pyramid scheme can be revived. They will tax us more, they will increase the contributions to the scheme and they will inflate the currency like there is no tomorrow.

This is a complete disaster.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The pension plan is the most unfunded and ruinous program of all the &#8220;developed&#8221; world.</p>
<p>From Germany, France, England to the USA, all social security is underfunded and will cost much more to the world governments than all wars fought to date.</p>
<p>Simply put, it&#8217;s a generational ponzi scheme that has come to it&#8217;s death and there is no way that this pyramid scheme can be revived. They will tax us more, they will increase the contributions to the scheme and they will inflate the currency like there is no tomorrow.</p>
<p>This is a complete disaster.</p>
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		<title>By: Seattle</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/15329/bernanke-and-the-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-751999</link>
		<dc:creator>Seattle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jan 2011 17:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=15329#comment-751999</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you were only allowed to work for a penny an hour, with prices staying as they are, would you bother? Of &lt;i&gt;course&lt;/i&gt; banks don&#039;t wanna lend out money if rates are low.

The idea behind the low rates is this: The problem is a lack of desire to borrow, not a lack of desire to lend.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you were only allowed to work for a penny an hour, with prices staying as they are, would you bother? Of <i>course</i> banks don&#8217;t wanna lend out money if rates are low.</p>
<p>The idea behind the low rates is this: The problem is a lack of desire to borrow, not a lack of desire to lend.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: The Anti-Gnostic</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/15329/bernanke-and-the-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-751996</link>
		<dc:creator>The Anti-Gnostic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jan 2011 17:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=15329#comment-751996</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&#039;Retirement,&#039; in the sense of former employees being paid for past service, will not exist 30 years from now.  Fortunately for your children, you had the foresight to have a large family.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Retirement,&#8217; in the sense of former employees being paid for past service, will not exist 30 years from now.  Fortunately for your children, you had the foresight to have a large family.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ohhh Henry</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/15329/bernanke-and-the-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-751979</link>
		<dc:creator>Ohhh Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jan 2011 15:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=15329#comment-751979</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The president of the Dallas Fed blames Ron Paul for the fiscal crisis!  LOL

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dallasfed.org/news/speeches/fisher/2011/fs110112.cfm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;
http://www.dallasfed.org/news/speeches/fisher/2011/fs110112.cfm&lt;/a&gt;

... the FOMC collectively decided in November to temporarily undertake a program to purchase U.S. Treasuries that, when added to previous policy initiatives, roughly means we are purchasing the equivalent of all newly issued Treasury debt through June ...

The entire FOMC knows the history and the ruinous fate that is meted out to countries whose central banks take to regularly monetizing government debt. ... But here is the essential fact I want to emphasize today: The Fed could not monetize the debt if the debt were not being created by Congress in the first place.

&lt;b&gt;Those lawmakers who advocate “Ending the Fed” might better turn their considerable talents toward ending the fiscal debacle that has for too long run amuck within their own house&lt;/b&gt; ... &lt;/blockquote&gt;

When they start pointing fingers at each other, it must be a sign that the unholy alliance of Fed and Congress is breaking up.

He is however a hundred times more honest than that mendacious clown The Ben Bernank who had the nerve to tell 60 Minutes &quot;we&#039;re not printing money&quot;.  Not that it matters whether these people are honest or not, the ending will still be exactly the same.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The president of the Dallas Fed blames Ron Paul for the fiscal crisis!  LOL</p>
<blockquote><p><a href="http://www.dallasfed.org/news/speeches/fisher/2011/fs110112.cfm" rel="nofollow"><br />
</a><a href="http://www.dallasfed.org/news/speeches/fisher/2011/fs110112.cfm" rel="nofollow">http://www.dallasfed.org/news/speeches/fisher/2011/fs110112.cfm</a></p>
<p>&#8230; the FOMC collectively decided in November to temporarily undertake a program to purchase U.S. Treasuries that, when added to previous policy initiatives, roughly means we are purchasing the equivalent of all newly issued Treasury debt through June &#8230;</p>
<p>The entire FOMC knows the history and the ruinous fate that is meted out to countries whose central banks take to regularly monetizing government debt. &#8230; But here is the essential fact I want to emphasize today: The Fed could not monetize the debt if the debt were not being created by Congress in the first place.</p>
<p><b>Those lawmakers who advocate “Ending the Fed” might better turn their considerable talents toward ending the fiscal debacle that has for too long run amuck within their own house</b> &#8230; </p></blockquote>
<p>When they start pointing fingers at each other, it must be a sign that the unholy alliance of Fed and Congress is breaking up.</p>
<p>He is however a hundred times more honest than that mendacious clown The Ben Bernank who had the nerve to tell 60 Minutes &#8220;we&#8217;re not printing money&#8221;.  Not that it matters whether these people are honest or not, the ending will still be exactly the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Koerber</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/15329/bernanke-and-the-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-751951</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Koerber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jan 2011 15:20:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=15329#comment-751951</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Where will Bernanke hide? We know why!!!!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where will Bernanke hide? We know why!!!!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: The Anti-Gnostic</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/15329/bernanke-and-the-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-751948</link>
		<dc:creator>The Anti-Gnostic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jan 2011 14:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=15329#comment-751948</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good old-fashioned rioting in the streets.  And it gets even better:  by that point, the government won&#039;t be able to pay people to protect it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good old-fashioned rioting in the streets.  And it gets even better:  by that point, the government won&#8217;t be able to pay people to protect it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Victor</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/15329/bernanke-and-the-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-751932</link>
		<dc:creator>Victor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jan 2011 12:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=15329#comment-751932</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Post-collapse Soviet pensions buying power on the way.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Post-collapse Soviet pensions buying power on the way.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Libertarian jerry</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/15329/bernanke-and-the-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-751913</link>
		<dc:creator>Libertarian jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jan 2011 09:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=15329#comment-751913</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The end result,in the near future,will be that the value of pensions and the various &quot;saving for retirement plans&quot; will be greatly diminished because of the inflation of the money supply. Mr.Bernanke&#039;s ideas of flooding the market with more and more worthless fiat currency will eventually lead to a tremendous loss of the  purchasing power of pension checks. Sure,the pensions will probably be paid,as will Social Security payouts, but the checks won&#039;t be able to even buy a cup of coffee. Then what?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The end result,in the near future,will be that the value of pensions and the various &#8220;saving for retirement plans&#8221; will be greatly diminished because of the inflation of the money supply. Mr.Bernanke&#8217;s ideas of flooding the market with more and more worthless fiat currency will eventually lead to a tremendous loss of the  purchasing power of pension checks. Sure,the pensions will probably be paid,as will Social Security payouts, but the checks won&#8217;t be able to even buy a cup of coffee. Then what?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: bob_c</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/15329/bernanke-and-the-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-751901</link>
		<dc:creator>bob_c</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jan 2011 07:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=15329#comment-751901</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The muni market recognizes this pension problem and the yields on any pension obligation/revenue bond are higher than Calif and Illy debt. People are dumping these bonds. I&#039;ve heard lots of talk that once there is a default that these pension obligations will be re-negotiated (lower) so the debt can be repaid. Its just a matter of time.
I want sanity to prevail.  Its insane what the unions and govt workers say
to justify their greed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The muni market recognizes this pension problem and the yields on any pension obligation/revenue bond are higher than Calif and Illy debt. People are dumping these bonds. I&#8217;ve heard lots of talk that once there is a default that these pension obligations will be re-negotiated (lower) so the debt can be repaid. Its just a matter of time.<br />
I want sanity to prevail.  Its insane what the unions and govt workers say<br />
to justify their greed.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Graeme MEYER</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/15329/bernanke-and-the-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-751850</link>
		<dc:creator>Graeme MEYER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jan 2011 01:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=15329#comment-751850</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for writing of pension income agree wholeheartedly that the mysterious pension formulas as more transient workforce create for stressful retirement planning.  Public (and private for that matter) pensions are not separate funds per say but most often pay-as-you-go so the individuals working today pay the pensions for the retirees currently collecting pension.

This system works perfectly except when unemployment rates climb and fewer individuals rely on pensions from employers these days as well.  Increasing payroll deductions to cover the pension shortfall only creates for more economic pressure and downward trend in quality of living standards.

Well funded Well managed and Well maintained public pensions afford individuals the security of income they need to take the business risks necessary in capitalist marketplace.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for writing of pension income agree wholeheartedly that the mysterious pension formulas as more transient workforce create for stressful retirement planning.  Public (and private for that matter) pensions are not separate funds per say but most often pay-as-you-go so the individuals working today pay the pensions for the retirees currently collecting pension.</p>
<p>This system works perfectly except when unemployment rates climb and fewer individuals rely on pensions from employers these days as well.  Increasing payroll deductions to cover the pension shortfall only creates for more economic pressure and downward trend in quality of living standards.</p>
<p>Well funded Well managed and Well maintained public pensions afford individuals the security of income they need to take the business risks necessary in capitalist marketplace.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Hack</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/15329/bernanke-and-the-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-751843</link>
		<dc:creator>Hack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jan 2011 01:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=15329#comment-751843</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So low interest rates discourage lending?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So low interest rates discourage lending?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: billwald</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/15329/bernanke-and-the-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-751833</link>
		<dc:creator>billwald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jan 2011 00:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=15329#comment-751833</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In 30 years when my five kids start retiring, who is more likely to have a retirement above poverty level, the two with federal government jobs or the three who don&#039;t?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 30 years when my five kids start retiring, who is more likely to have a retirement above poverty level, the two with federal government jobs or the three who don&#8217;t?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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