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	<title>Comments on: Goodbye College</title>
	<atom:link href="http://archive.mises.org/14133/goodbye-college/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://archive.mises.org/14133/goodbye-college/</link>
	<description>Proceeding Ever More Boldly Against Evil</description>
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		<title>By: collegeinfopro</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/14133/goodbye-college/comment-page-1/#comment-734752</link>
		<dc:creator>collegeinfopro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Oct 2010 09:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=14133#comment-734752</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Really interesting post, agree with you that in today&#039;s fast life brick and mortar universities are lagging far behind and online courses are really gaining grounds but I do not think the it is the end of the brick and mortar universities.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really interesting post, agree with you that in today&#8217;s fast life brick and mortar universities are lagging far behind and online courses are really gaining grounds but I do not think the it is the end of the brick and mortar universities.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Ranson</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/14133/goodbye-college/comment-page-1/#comment-729268</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Ranson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Oct 2010 15:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=14133#comment-729268</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[All too true... sadly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All too true&#8230; sadly.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse Forgione</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/14133/goodbye-college/comment-page-1/#comment-729050</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse Forgione</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Oct 2010 20:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=14133#comment-729050</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Internet-based courses are only one part of what someone does when educating himself outside of the school system.

The only things you really miss out on are cynical, thought-killing professors and a mountain of debt.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Internet-based courses are only one part of what someone does when educating himself outside of the school system.</p>
<p>The only things you really miss out on are cynical, thought-killing professors and a mountain of debt.</p>
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		<title>By: Howard Cornett</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/14133/goodbye-college/comment-page-1/#comment-729008</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard Cornett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Oct 2010 18:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=14133#comment-729008</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Check out www.personalmba.com for a new way to learn what is in a traditional MBA at a much lower cost.  I am not affiliated in any way.  I just use and appreciate the site and the information.  It has really helped me get better at what I do.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check out <a href="http://www.personalmba.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.personalmba.com</a> for a new way to learn what is in a traditional MBA at a much lower cost.  I am not affiliated in any way.  I just use and appreciate the site and the information.  It has really helped me get better at what I do.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: billwald</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/14133/goodbye-college/comment-page-1/#comment-728981</link>
		<dc:creator>billwald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Oct 2010 16:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=14133#comment-728981</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In the bad old days most of the people who went to college didn&#039;t need a job. Needing a degree for a job is a post WW2 phenomenon which has degenerated into using an advanced degree requirement simply to cut down the pool of applicants.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the bad old days most of the people who went to college didn&#8217;t need a job. Needing a degree for a job is a post WW2 phenomenon which has degenerated into using an advanced degree requirement simply to cut down the pool of applicants.</p>
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		<title>By: SirThinkALot</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/14133/goodbye-college/comment-page-1/#comment-728972</link>
		<dc:creator>SirThinkALot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Oct 2010 15:38:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=14133#comment-728972</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That would happen in a free market, but since schooling is rigedly controlled(and at the lower levels, effectively monopolized) by the government, I gurantee they&#039;ll do everything they can to prevent that from happening....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That would happen in a free market, but since schooling is rigedly controlled(and at the lower levels, effectively monopolized) by the government, I gurantee they&#8217;ll do everything they can to prevent that from happening&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: JFF</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/14133/goodbye-college/comment-page-1/#comment-728958</link>
		<dc:creator>JFF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Oct 2010 13:47:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=14133#comment-728958</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Or really don&#039;t want to work at all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or really don&#8217;t want to work at all.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Anupam</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/14133/goodbye-college/comment-page-1/#comment-728945</link>
		<dc:creator>Anupam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Oct 2010 12:51:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=14133#comment-728945</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Agreed, In the era of free education over the internet, its ridiculous to spend a 6 figure amount on higher education.

You would rather invest those into a franchisee business and make better returns on your investment.

Mind you a 6 figure fee MBA at top institute does not guarantee a great job. If et al, you would be more stressed than before with the commitments you make at your corporation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed, In the era of free education over the internet, its ridiculous to spend a 6 figure amount on higher education.</p>
<p>You would rather invest those into a franchisee business and make better returns on your investment.</p>
<p>Mind you a 6 figure fee MBA at top institute does not guarantee a great job. If et al, you would be more stressed than before with the commitments you make at your corporation.</p>
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		<title>By: Slim934</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/14133/goodbye-college/comment-page-1/#comment-728943</link>
		<dc:creator>Slim934</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Oct 2010 12:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=14133#comment-728943</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;In Griggs v. Duke the employer was requiring a general skills and knowledge test that was found to be biased in favor of white applicants.&quot;

I do not see a misrepresentation here.  The court itself determined the criteria for what was &quot;biased in favor of white applicants&quot; correct?

Even assuming it was blatantly biased in favor of white candidates how on earth would a company that goes through the work of developing such a test know a priori whether the test itself will screen out one race over another?  It seems to me all one would have to do is show that one race passed/failed more than another and use that as evidence of inherent bias in the test.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In Griggs v. Duke the employer was requiring a general skills and knowledge test that was found to be biased in favor of white applicants.&#8221;</p>
<p>I do not see a misrepresentation here.  The court itself determined the criteria for what was &#8220;biased in favor of white applicants&#8221; correct?</p>
<p>Even assuming it was blatantly biased in favor of white candidates how on earth would a company that goes through the work of developing such a test know a priori whether the test itself will screen out one race over another?  It seems to me all one would have to do is show that one race passed/failed more than another and use that as evidence of inherent bias in the test.</p>
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		<title>By: Slim934</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/14133/goodbye-college/comment-page-1/#comment-728942</link>
		<dc:creator>Slim934</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Oct 2010 12:34:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=14133#comment-728942</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Your argument loses a great deal of force once we recognize that without federal student aid (look at the previous tax receipts story) then most of the people IN colleges would likely choose to drop out for simple reason of being unable to pay.  There is a reason that college tuition gets hiked up in the neighborhood of 5 times the inflation rate.

The price signals for higher education are supremely screwed up by federal intervention so I would posit that looking at that metric produces incorrect conclusions also.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your argument loses a great deal of force once we recognize that without federal student aid (look at the previous tax receipts story) then most of the people IN colleges would likely choose to drop out for simple reason of being unable to pay.  There is a reason that college tuition gets hiked up in the neighborhood of 5 times the inflation rate.</p>
<p>The price signals for higher education are supremely screwed up by federal intervention so I would posit that looking at that metric produces incorrect conclusions also.</p>
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		<title>By: Curt Howland</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/14133/goodbye-college/comment-page-1/#comment-728941</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt Howland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Oct 2010 12:22:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=14133#comment-728941</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Likely because Ron Paul is busy right now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Likely because Ron Paul is busy right now.</p>
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		<title>By: Brandon Adams</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/14133/goodbye-college/comment-page-1/#comment-728924</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Oct 2010 06:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=14133#comment-728924</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Your HR department is misinterpreting the case law.  In Griggs v. Duke the employer was requiring a general skills and knowledge test that was found to be biased in favor of white applicants.  The skills tested had little to no relation to the job being applied for.

A test measuring skills and knowledge directly relevant to the job would be fine.  Just don&#039;t make any analogies involving regattas.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your HR department is misinterpreting the case law.  In Griggs v. Duke the employer was requiring a general skills and knowledge test that was found to be biased in favor of white applicants.  The skills tested had little to no relation to the job being applied for.</p>
<p>A test measuring skills and knowledge directly relevant to the job would be fine.  Just don&#8217;t make any analogies involving regattas.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremiah Dyke</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/14133/goodbye-college/comment-page-1/#comment-728805</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremiah Dyke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Oct 2010 18:01:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=14133#comment-728805</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good catch! Never forgive me for these errors. I am a horribly impatient writer who rarely proofreads anything]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good catch! Never forgive me for these errors. I am a horribly impatient writer who rarely proofreads anything</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/14133/goodbye-college/comment-page-1/#comment-728803</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Oct 2010 17:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=14133#comment-728803</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with Mr. Dyke&#039;s argument, but I have one small critique. &quot;Dieing?&quot; Unless we are referring to &quot;the process of using a sharp implement to cut material,&quot; the standard English spelling for &quot;the cessation of life&quot; (to which I believe Mr. Dyke was referring) is &quot;dying.&quot; I could forgive this in any other situation- but in an article about higher education, and in the first sentence, no less!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Mr. Dyke&#8217;s argument, but I have one small critique. &#8220;Dieing?&#8221; Unless we are referring to &#8220;the process of using a sharp implement to cut material,&#8221; the standard English spelling for &#8220;the cessation of life&#8221; (to which I believe Mr. Dyke was referring) is &#8220;dying.&#8221; I could forgive this in any other situation- but in an article about higher education, and in the first sentence, no less!</p>
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		<title>By: r</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/14133/goodbye-college/comment-page-1/#comment-728789</link>
		<dc:creator>r</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Oct 2010 17:05:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=14133#comment-728789</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Khan Academy doesn&#039;t end at Calculus 2. It contains at least enough more material on calculus to fill 2 more semesters, as well as courses on linear algebra and differential equations.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Khan Academy doesn&#8217;t end at Calculus 2. It contains at least enough more material on calculus to fill 2 more semesters, as well as courses on linear algebra and differential equations.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Ranson</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/14133/goodbye-college/comment-page-1/#comment-728784</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Ranson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Oct 2010 16:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=14133#comment-728784</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The question that is never asked among these debates is why companies require degrees instead of skills?&quot;

I think it would be better to ask the broader question, &quot;Why do so many college students enter into courses of study that have little economic value?&quot;

The answer, in part, is demand created for degrees by persons intending to work for the government and in government controlled industries.

The Princeton Review&#039;s list of most popular college majors is as follows: 1) Business Administration and Management/Commerce, 2) Psychology, 3) Nursing, 4) Biology/Biological Sciences, 5)  Education, 6)  English Language and Literature, 7) Economics, 8 Communications Studies/Speech Communication and Rhetoric, 9) Political Science and Government, 10) Computer and Information Sciences

If you look at the list, it is easy to see that a large portion of college students intend to work for the government and are arming themselves with the appropriate degrees.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The question that is never asked among these debates is why companies require degrees instead of skills?&#8221;</p>
<p>I think it would be better to ask the broader question, &#8220;Why do so many college students enter into courses of study that have little economic value?&#8221;</p>
<p>The answer, in part, is demand created for degrees by persons intending to work for the government and in government controlled industries.</p>
<p>The Princeton Review&#8217;s list of most popular college majors is as follows: 1) Business Administration and Management/Commerce, 2) Psychology, 3) Nursing, 4) Biology/Biological Sciences, 5)  Education, 6)  English Language and Literature, 7) Economics, 8 Communications Studies/Speech Communication and Rhetoric, 9) Political Science and Government, 10) Computer and Information Sciences</p>
<p>If you look at the list, it is easy to see that a large portion of college students intend to work for the government and are arming themselves with the appropriate degrees.</p>
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		<title>By: El Tonno</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/14133/goodbye-college/comment-page-1/#comment-728765</link>
		<dc:creator>El Tonno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Oct 2010 14:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=14133#comment-728765</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Related: The Ranking Wars (via http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=3197)

&quot;For most academics though, the real ranking that matters is not that of how good a job one’s institution does in training undergraduates, but the ranking of the quality of research in one’s academic field. Where one’s department fits in this hierarchy is crucial, affecting one’s ability to get grants, how good one’s students are and whether they can get jobs, even one’s salary. The gold standard has been the National Research Council rankings, which were supposed to be revised about every ten years. It turns out though that the task of making these ranking has somehow become far more complex and difficult, with more than fifteen years elapsing since the last rankings in 1995. Since 2005 there has been a large and well-funded project to generate new rankings, with release date that keeps getting pushed back. Finally, last year a 200 page book was released entitled A Guide to the Methodology of the National Research Council Assessment of Doctorate Programs, but still no rankings.

Recently the announcement was made that all will be revealed tomorrow at a press conference to be held in Washington at 1pm EDT. I hear rumors that university administrations have been privately given some of the numbers in advance, to allow the preparation of appropriate press releases.

The data being used was gathered back in 2005-2006, and the five intervening years of processing mean that it is rather stale, since many departments have gained or lost academic stars and changed a lot during these years. So, no matter what happens, a good excuse for ignoring the results will be at hand.

Based on the confidential data provided to them last week, the University of Washington Computer Science and Engineering department has released a statement characterizing this data as having “significant flaws” ...

The UW Dean of the College of Engineering has a statement here where he claims that, despite 5 years of massaging, the NRC data contained obvious nonsense, such as the statistic that 0% of their graduating CS Ph.D. students had plans for academic employment during 2001-5.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Related: The Ranking Wars (via <a href="http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=3197" rel="nofollow">http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=3197</a>)</p>
<p>&#8220;For most academics though, the real ranking that matters is not that of how good a job one’s institution does in training undergraduates, but the ranking of the quality of research in one’s academic field. Where one’s department fits in this hierarchy is crucial, affecting one’s ability to get grants, how good one’s students are and whether they can get jobs, even one’s salary. The gold standard has been the National Research Council rankings, which were supposed to be revised about every ten years. It turns out though that the task of making these ranking has somehow become far more complex and difficult, with more than fifteen years elapsing since the last rankings in 1995. Since 2005 there has been a large and well-funded project to generate new rankings, with release date that keeps getting pushed back. Finally, last year a 200 page book was released entitled A Guide to the Methodology of the National Research Council Assessment of Doctorate Programs, but still no rankings.</p>
<p>Recently the announcement was made that all will be revealed tomorrow at a press conference to be held in Washington at 1pm EDT. I hear rumors that university administrations have been privately given some of the numbers in advance, to allow the preparation of appropriate press releases.</p>
<p>The data being used was gathered back in 2005-2006, and the five intervening years of processing mean that it is rather stale, since many departments have gained or lost academic stars and changed a lot during these years. So, no matter what happens, a good excuse for ignoring the results will be at hand.</p>
<p>Based on the confidential data provided to them last week, the University of Washington Computer Science and Engineering department has released a statement characterizing this data as having “significant flaws” &#8230;</p>
<p>The UW Dean of the College of Engineering has a statement here where he claims that, despite 5 years of massaging, the NRC data contained obvious nonsense, such as the statistic that 0% of their graduating CS Ph.D. students had plans for academic employment during 2001-5.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: prettyskin</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/14133/goodbye-college/comment-page-1/#comment-728759</link>
		<dc:creator>prettyskin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Oct 2010 14:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=14133#comment-728759</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We specialize in things that we are not good in and turn around and call ourselves specialists.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We specialize in things that we are not good in and turn around and call ourselves specialists.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: J. Murray</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/14133/goodbye-college/comment-page-1/#comment-728748</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Oct 2010 12:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=14133#comment-728748</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And people laughed at me when I decided not to go with the MBA and go straight into the business world.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And people laughed at me when I decided not to go with the MBA and go straight into the business world.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/14133/goodbye-college/comment-page-1/#comment-728733</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Oct 2010 10:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=14133#comment-728733</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A very common issue in Europe: Degrees and skills are required almost at the same time, which makes it very difficult for MBA and other graduates to get employed. However, there are also &quot;thinking companies&quot; understanding that theory needs to be proved in practice and that young people need to get a chance. They invest in graduates and develop company-tailor-made skills.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very common issue in Europe: Degrees and skills are required almost at the same time, which makes it very difficult for MBA and other graduates to get employed. However, there are also &#8220;thinking companies&#8221; understanding that theory needs to be proved in practice and that young people need to get a chance. They invest in graduates and develop company-tailor-made skills.</p>
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