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	<title>Comments on: The Blockade and Attempted Starvation of Germany</title>
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	<description>Proceeding Ever More Boldly Against Evil</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 08:26:49 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Mladen Grujic</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12657/12657/comment-page-1/#comment-779858</link>
		<dc:creator>Mladen Grujic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2011 07:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/12657/12657/#comment-779858</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, its fairly clear what the US was doing in WWI...teaching &quot;everyone&quot; a lesson.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, its fairly clear what the US was doing in WWI&#8230;teaching &#8220;everyone&#8221; a lesson.</p>
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		<title>By: P.M.Lawrence</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12657/12657/comment-page-1/#comment-687703</link>
		<dc:creator>P.M.Lawrence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 May 2010 06:37:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/12657/12657/#comment-687703</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[At  May 8, 2010 at 7:55 am, Dennis wrote &quot;Were not the people of Belgium at least partially responsible for the actions of their king?&quot;

Yes - which is why they stepped in and put a stop to those things once they knew what he was really up to. They were &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; responsible for him doing those things or for overseeing him in the first place; he wasn&#039;t &lt;i&gt;their&lt;/i&gt; slave. If anything, the USA was responsible, for granting the first international recognition for his project. Belgium was &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; responsible for the atrocities.

&quot;Colonialism and imperialism, which were to varying degrees practiced by most of the European countries (and by the U.S.), constitute reprehensible behavior whose negative ramifications exist to this day&quot;.

No - because those things were not the simplistic thing modern understanding supposes. It was not a question of whether or not things should be taken from defenceless others but rather who should get them if someone was going to take them anyway. The British Empire grew in a strategically defensive way, making sure that other powers wouldn&#039;t take things (at first the French, then the Russians, and finally Germany). European powers went into Africa on a small scale to put a stop to local abuses like slavery (see above for why Belgium went in - if it hadn&#039;t, the Congo Free State would have continued), then on a larger scale to make sure that the other powers didn&#039;t get an advantage that could tip the balance of power.

&#039;The Allies arguably were engaged in colonialism and imperialism to a greater extent than the Central Powers, and the Allies’ emphasis on self-determination was largely war propaganda and a classic “do as I say but not as I do,” unless one believes that Asians and Africans have less of a right to self-determination than Europeans.&#039;

The Allies had no such propaganda at all; that self-determination stuff was entirely down to Woodrow Wilson. But, as a matter of historical fact, concepts of national identity like that weren&#039;t in place in the taken over areas at the time; they only developed later, under (ironically) colonial influence. Churchill once echoed a remark of Metternich&#039;s about Italy, saying that &quot;India is not a country but a geographical expression like the equator&quot; - and he was absolutely accurate at the time he said it. Even at independence India did &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; have that identity (which is why Pakistan came to be) and large areas did &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; want to join (like Hyderabad, maybe twice the size of France, which India invaded and annexed to force into that national identity).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At  May 8, 2010 at 7:55 am, Dennis wrote &#8220;Were not the people of Belgium at least partially responsible for the actions of their king?&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes &#8211; which is why they stepped in and put a stop to those things once they knew what he was really up to. They were <i>not</i> responsible for him doing those things or for overseeing him in the first place; he wasn&#8217;t <i>their</i> slave. If anything, the USA was responsible, for granting the first international recognition for his project. Belgium was <i>not</i> responsible for the atrocities.</p>
<p>&#8220;Colonialism and imperialism, which were to varying degrees practiced by most of the European countries (and by the U.S.), constitute reprehensible behavior whose negative ramifications exist to this day&#8221;.</p>
<p>No &#8211; because those things were not the simplistic thing modern understanding supposes. It was not a question of whether or not things should be taken from defenceless others but rather who should get them if someone was going to take them anyway. The British Empire grew in a strategically defensive way, making sure that other powers wouldn&#8217;t take things (at first the French, then the Russians, and finally Germany). European powers went into Africa on a small scale to put a stop to local abuses like slavery (see above for why Belgium went in &#8211; if it hadn&#8217;t, the Congo Free State would have continued), then on a larger scale to make sure that the other powers didn&#8217;t get an advantage that could tip the balance of power.</p>
<p>&#8216;The Allies arguably were engaged in colonialism and imperialism to a greater extent than the Central Powers, and the Allies’ emphasis on self-determination was largely war propaganda and a classic “do as I say but not as I do,” unless one believes that Asians and Africans have less of a right to self-determination than Europeans.&#8217;</p>
<p>The Allies had no such propaganda at all; that self-determination stuff was entirely down to Woodrow Wilson. But, as a matter of historical fact, concepts of national identity like that weren&#8217;t in place in the taken over areas at the time; they only developed later, under (ironically) colonial influence. Churchill once echoed a remark of Metternich&#8217;s about Italy, saying that &#8220;India is not a country but a geographical expression like the equator&#8221; &#8211; and he was absolutely accurate at the time he said it. Even at independence India did <i>not</i> have that identity (which is why Pakistan came to be) and large areas did <i>not</i> want to join (like Hyderabad, maybe twice the size of France, which India invaded and annexed to force into that national identity).</p>
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		<title>By: Gil</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12657/12657/comment-page-1/#comment-687690</link>
		<dc:creator>Gil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 May 2010 02:02:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/12657/12657/#comment-687690</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I believe Gandhi took Hitler&#039;s side because Germanywas at war his Oppressor.  (The enemy of my enemy is my friend.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe Gandhi took Hitler&#8217;s side because Germanywas at war his Oppressor.  (The enemy of my enemy is my friend.)</p>
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		<title>By: mikey</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12657/12657/comment-page-1/#comment-687668</link>
		<dc:creator>mikey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 21:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/12657/12657/#comment-687668</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Personal correspondence between Churchill and foreign minister White shows he was panicked at the thought of Britain not having a reason to be involved in this war.It was a sore point that Britain had stayed out of the war of 1870.
Germans &#039;leaders&#039; were obsessed with humiliating France, not using their heads at all.There was never a chance for peace as long as Germany had Alsace-Lorraine.
King Leopold? A very bad man, dont blame the Belgian people.He was successful in keeping his actions
in the Congo a secret.It was a shipping clerk in London all on his lonesome who discovered what was happening. All deduced from bills of lading. Lots of diamonds rubber and other valuable stuff leaving the Congo.Nothing going there but soldiers and guns.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personal correspondence between Churchill and foreign minister White shows he was panicked at the thought of Britain not having a reason to be involved in this war.It was a sore point that Britain had stayed out of the war of 1870.<br />
Germans &#8216;leaders&#8217; were obsessed with humiliating France, not using their heads at all.There was never a chance for peace as long as Germany had Alsace-Lorraine.<br />
King Leopold? A very bad man, dont blame the Belgian people.He was successful in keeping his actions<br />
in the Congo a secret.It was a shipping clerk in London all on his lonesome who discovered what was happening. All deduced from bills of lading. Lots of diamonds rubber and other valuable stuff leaving the Congo.Nothing going there but soldiers and guns.</p>
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		<title>By: mpolzkill</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12657/12657/comment-page-1/#comment-687652</link>
		<dc:creator>mpolzkill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 17:18:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/12657/12657/#comment-687652</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Suckers and chickenhawks, that&#039;s the lot of you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suckers and chickenhawks, that&#8217;s the lot of you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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		<title>By: mpolzkill</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12657/12657/comment-page-1/#comment-687633</link>
		<dc:creator>mpolzkill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 13:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/12657/12657/#comment-687633</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know, I told myself I wouldn&#039;t read your posts anymore.

Haha, almost an emotion, and I was thinking Newson was right that you could be paid to make internet noise.

Hey half-wit, Raico said &quot;state atrocities.&quot; Still a redundancy, but I forgive him.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know, I told myself I wouldn&#8217;t read your posts anymore.</p>
<p>Haha, almost an emotion, and I was thinking Newson was right that you could be paid to make internet noise.</p>
<p>Hey half-wit, Raico said &#8220;state atrocities.&#8221; Still a redundancy, but I forgive him.</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12657/12657/comment-page-1/#comment-687632</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 12:55:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/12657/12657/#comment-687632</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Were not the people of Belgium at least partially responsible for the actions of their king? 

Colonialism and imperialism, which were to varying degrees practiced by most of the European countries (and by the U.S.), constitute reprehensible behavior whose negative ramifications exist to this day. The Allies arguably were engaged in colonialism and imperialism to a greater extent than the Central Powers, and the Allies’ emphasis on self-determination was largely war propaganda and a classic “do as I say but not as I do,” unless one believes that Asians and Africans have less of a right to self-determination than Europeans.

A substantial revisionist history exists regarding WW I that presents a much more factually accurate account of this conflict and its causes than what is typically taught to schoolchildren in the U.S. Professor Raico’s essay, “World War I: The Turning Point” is an outstanding and well-documented overview of the ideology and events contributing to U.S. involvement in this conflict, which was likely the most detrimental event in Western Civilization in the 20th century.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Were not the people of Belgium at least partially responsible for the actions of their king? </p>
<p>Colonialism and imperialism, which were to varying degrees practiced by most of the European countries (and by the U.S.), constitute reprehensible behavior whose negative ramifications exist to this day. The Allies arguably were engaged in colonialism and imperialism to a greater extent than the Central Powers, and the Allies’ emphasis on self-determination was largely war propaganda and a classic “do as I say but not as I do,” unless one believes that Asians and Africans have less of a right to self-determination than Europeans.</p>
<p>A substantial revisionist history exists regarding WW I that presents a much more factually accurate account of this conflict and its causes than what is typically taught to schoolchildren in the U.S. Professor Raico’s essay, “World War I: The Turning Point” is an outstanding and well-documented overview of the ideology and events contributing to U.S. involvement in this conflict, which was likely the most detrimental event in Western Civilization in the 20th century.</p>
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		<title>By: Gil</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12657/12657/comment-page-1/#comment-687628</link>
		<dc:creator>Gil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 12:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/12657/12657/#comment-687628</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Aw what?  I&#039;m a sucker if I believe the official statist history?  The real WW1 and WW2 history is so much horribly different?  The statist &#039;good&#039; guys were really the aggressors and the &#039;bad&#039; guys while not nice they were defenders per se?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aw what?  I&#8217;m a sucker if I believe the official statist history?  The real WW1 and WW2 history is so much horribly different?  The statist &#8216;good&#8217; guys were really the aggressors and the &#8216;bad&#8217; guys while not nice they were defenders per se?</p>
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		<title>By: newson</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12657/12657/comment-page-1/#comment-687624</link>
		<dc:creator>newson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 09:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/12657/12657/#comment-687624</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[you must be getting paid for churning out such inanities.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you must be getting paid for churning out such inanities.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gil</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12657/12657/comment-page-1/#comment-687621</link>
		<dc:creator>Gil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 08:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/12657/12657/#comment-687621</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;re an idiot.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re an idiot.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: mpolzkill</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12657/12657/comment-page-1/#comment-687617</link>
		<dc:creator>mpolzkill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 06:19:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/12657/12657/#comment-687617</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I had this idea earlier of replacing &quot;war&quot; with &quot;dating&quot; in all of Gil&#039;s posts:

I believe dating creates a sort of ‘moral commons’ in the restaurants and bars. If there&#039;s a clear cut aggressor then a moral argument can be established regardless of whether one scores or not.

Anyway I believe truly innocent girls are those who are not part of any dating whatsoever. In reality, most girls date and most girls&#039; areas are targets. Ideally girls shouldn&#039;t go on dates in the first place because it’s going to be hell. ‘Date Rape&#039; borders on being a redundant term.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had this idea earlier of replacing &#8220;war&#8221; with &#8220;dating&#8221; in all of Gil&#8217;s posts:</p>
<p>I believe dating creates a sort of ‘moral commons’ in the restaurants and bars. If there&#8217;s a clear cut aggressor then a moral argument can be established regardless of whether one scores or not.</p>
<p>Anyway I believe truly innocent girls are those who are not part of any dating whatsoever. In reality, most girls date and most girls&#8217; areas are targets. Ideally girls shouldn&#8217;t go on dates in the first place because it’s going to be hell. ‘Date Rape&#8217; borders on being a redundant term.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Gil</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12657/12657/comment-page-1/#comment-687613</link>
		<dc:creator>Gil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 05:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/12657/12657/#comment-687613</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I believe war creates a sort of &#039;moral commons&#039; in the warring geographical areas.  If there a clear cut aggressor then a moral argument can be established regardless of who wins.  However many conflicts happen between two sides who both feel the other is the wrongdoer.

Anyway I believe truly innocent people are those who are not part of the war effort whatsoever.  In reality, most of the population is part of the war effort and most structures are valid military targets.  Ideally wars shouldn&#039;t take part in the first place because it&#039;s going to hell.  &#039;War atrocity&#039; borders on being a redundant term.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe war creates a sort of &#8216;moral commons&#8217; in the warring geographical areas.  If there a clear cut aggressor then a moral argument can be established regardless of who wins.  However many conflicts happen between two sides who both feel the other is the wrongdoer.</p>
<p>Anyway I believe truly innocent people are those who are not part of the war effort whatsoever.  In reality, most of the population is part of the war effort and most structures are valid military targets.  Ideally wars shouldn&#8217;t take part in the first place because it&#8217;s going to hell.  &#8216;War atrocity&#8217; borders on being a redundant term.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gil</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12657/12657/comment-page-1/#comment-687611</link>
		<dc:creator>Gil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 05:13:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/12657/12657/#comment-687611</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why don&#039;t Americans defend landmines as per their Second Amendment?  As long as they only mine their yard and put up warning signs then it&#039;s all good.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why don&#8217;t Americans defend landmines as per their Second Amendment?  As long as they only mine their yard and put up warning signs then it&#8217;s all good.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Gil</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12657/12657/comment-page-1/#comment-687610</link>
		<dc:creator>Gil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 05:12:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/12657/12657/#comment-687610</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ohhhh, so the Brits were the bad guys and the Germans were the good guys?  Oh yeah and the U.S. unofficially declared war on Japan and feigned surprise after the attack at Pearl Harbor.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ohhhh, so the Brits were the bad guys and the Germans were the good guys?  Oh yeah and the U.S. unofficially declared war on Japan and feigned surprise after the attack at Pearl Harbor.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gil</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12657/12657/comment-page-1/#comment-687609</link>
		<dc:creator>Gil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 05:08:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/12657/12657/#comment-687609</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well Duh!  Of course the losing side must unconditionally surrender.  Put up the white flag and throw away your arms.  The losing side cannot seriously think they can get away with &#039;conditional&#039; surrender.  It&#039;s practical an oxymoron.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Duh!  Of course the losing side must unconditionally surrender.  Put up the white flag and throw away your arms.  The losing side cannot seriously think they can get away with &#8216;conditional&#8217; surrender.  It&#8217;s practical an oxymoron.</p>
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		<title>By: Caley McKibbin</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12657/12657/comment-page-1/#comment-687604</link>
		<dc:creator>Caley McKibbin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 04:43:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/12657/12657/#comment-687604</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Boo hoo @ the Holocaust. C&#039;est la guerre.  :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boo hoo @ the Holocaust. C&#8217;est la guerre.  <img src='http://archive.mises.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: newson</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12657/12657/comment-page-1/#comment-687598</link>
		<dc:creator>newson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 02:16:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/12657/12657/#comment-687598</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[i didn&#039;t see raico&#039;s paper in any way exculpating the german government.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i didn&#8217;t see raico&#8217;s paper in any way exculpating the german government.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: mpolzkill</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12657/12657/comment-page-1/#comment-687597</link>
		<dc:creator>mpolzkill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 02:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/12657/12657/#comment-687597</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, the English gangsters had better cards in their hand, the German gangsters shouldn&#039;t have tried to compete.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, the English gangsters had better cards in their hand, the German gangsters shouldn&#8217;t have tried to compete.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: newson</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12657/12657/comment-page-1/#comment-687596</link>
		<dc:creator>newson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 01:59:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/12657/12657/#comment-687596</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[when is gil going to defend landmines as expedient?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>when is gil going to defend landmines as expedient?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: P.M.Lawrence</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12657/12657/comment-page-1/#comment-687592</link>
		<dc:creator>P.M.Lawrence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 01:33:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/12657/12657/#comment-687592</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One difficulty is that things are simply not as clear cut as asserting that Germany was deprived of necessary food which had to come &lt;i&gt;from outside&lt;/i&gt;. All through, Germany had the resources to feed everybody without importing food - only, it would have had to take men from the front for the farms, use the railways to service food distribution rather than military logistics, and use its nitrate production for fertiliser rather than war materiel. The proximate cause of the starvation was that Germany prioritised the war effort over food production. Note that Switzerland, Scandinavia and Holland didn&#039;t starve even though their food imports were also curtailed, though not as much (and Holland, at least, had a proportionally smaller agricultural sector than Germany).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One difficulty is that things are simply not as clear cut as asserting that Germany was deprived of necessary food which had to come <i>from outside</i>. All through, Germany had the resources to feed everybody without importing food &#8211; only, it would have had to take men from the front for the farms, use the railways to service food distribution rather than military logistics, and use its nitrate production for fertiliser rather than war materiel. The proximate cause of the starvation was that Germany prioritised the war effort over food production. Note that Switzerland, Scandinavia and Holland didn&#8217;t starve even though their food imports were also curtailed, though not as much (and Holland, at least, had a proportionally smaller agricultural sector than Germany).</p>
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