Scott Baker over at OpEdNews recently posted an article under this title: “Ludwig von Mises and the Austrian School are morons, China is full of Geniuses.”
Ouch.
According to Baker, China’s managed economy is the future,
“China is miles ahead of the U.S. in economic management. It is an economy run by serious economists who learn from their mistakes … “
There are those nagging human rights issues,
“but it is neither as bad there, nor as good here, as the Right and Tea Partiers would like us to believe. Besides, that’s got little to do with macro-economic management.”
A few eggs cracked, big deal. If only we — the Austrians — would embrace central planning. If only we were that bright.
“The free marketers won’t even admit that a managed economy is doable, hence their refusal to see a working model in action. They would rather have periodic booms and busts, than admit their economic model is fundamentally flawed, and fatally too.”
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EkTuY4xWR4&feature=related
who is a moron on china will be revealed in due course; the jury on scott baker is out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLrFK1bBEm4
In this recent one Mr Faber makes fun of the bloomberg lady and tells her “you’re young, you go ahead and buy those Chinese securities”. Very good!
found on
http://seekingalpha.com/article/200212-marc-faber-on-bubble-building-in-china
I think you mean the jury on Scott Baker is *in*? There’s little doubt about his
intellectual status.
Yet again, the reactionaries refuse to rebuke actual AE theory. Why bother when they can just go after strawmen?
Hmmm, when the Chinese economy busts I’ll like to get this guy’s opinion.
*yawn*
*sigh*
Has anyone here ever met an Austrian who regards the business cycle as the natural, necessary course of the free market?
“Has anyone here ever met an Austrian who regards the business cycle as the natural, necessary course of the free market?”
(1) F.A. Hayek. (2) There is no system but the free market system; all other so-called economic systems are entirely illusory.
omg, I love it
What I like most about Austrian economists is they at least take the time to understand the people they disagree with
An alternative narrative (which just so happens to be true): the free markets are so powerful that, when a command-control economy is allowed to have even the smallest taste of it, powerful forces of creativity and growth are released. If China is smart, with each sign of a slowdown, they will liberalize more and keep their high level of growth.
let me guess..5 years ago he said buying a house was an investment and you could never loose money on a house.
#%^&!
He accused the Austrian school of ignoring/tolerating the business cycle?
*facepalm*
No kidding. As Einstein might have said, “It’s not even wrong.”
Curiously, Baker lauds higher reserve requirements, and he links to the AMI–a site critical of the Fed.
Maybe he wanted to an Austrian years ago, but couldn’t give up the impulse to rule over others.
Or he was too stupid/lazy to bother actually reading what Mises and the rest of the Austrians have said on this manner.
Given that he actually believes that we think the Business cycle is a natural course for an economy to take then I certainly must assume that he has never actually read any Austrian material.
“China is miles ahead of the U.S. in economic management. It is an economy run by serious economists who learn from their mistakes … “
That’s why China needs “special economic zones”, right? Thank heavens the central planners have omniscient knowledge!
Interestingly enough, wasn’t it just 30 years ago that millions starved to death under the same government? And wasn’t much of the modern success built on first working around the system (in a free/black market manner), then an allowance of free-market activity (as posited above), then a massive influx of foreign capital?
And to argue that the United States doesn’t have a managed economy? Who is he kidding? Money supply, outright nationalization, bailouts – these are not results of a free market. But you all know that.
In 2001, I corresponded with a guy in the Chinese office of economic development. He was interested in, but a little confused by, the Austrian school of economics. I explained to him how the Austrian school views a mis-allocation of resources, using a hypothetical Robinson Crusoe-type example to illustrate my points. Is it possible that the Chinese are incorporating Austrian school concepts into their economic policy decisions? Might this have something to do with their rapid economic growth?
Given that the Chinese government is essentially following a neo-mercantilist policy, the result of which is to basically subsidize American consumption at the expense of their own people (while piling up depreciating dollar reserves), I wouldn’t laud the intelligence of their economists. Nonetheless, whatsisface conveniently forgets that what improvements have occurred in China have occurred primarily because they have been going in the opposite of the direction that he would like to see the US go farther in-while at the same time the US has gotten poorer while moving towards greater central planning. Is there really any question as to which direction is better for real improvements in the standard of living?
FTW
Why even respond to op-eds like this? A response lends them credibility.
I would be surprised if that guy had ever been to China. Get out of Beijing and Shanghai and we’re not just talking about “poverty,” we’re talking about the REALLY UGLY KIND OF POVERTY that you only see in the poorest nations in the world. Shanty towns, no plumbing, etc. etc. To tout a nation like this as the right economic way of doing things is the staggering kind of ignorance that can only come from having never seen China firsthand.
Yes, China has made a lot of headway over the last 30 years, specifically by liberalizing its economy. It’s amazing what giving people a little freedom will do!
These kinds of socialists sit in the largest, most liberalized economy in the world and come up with thought-experiments about how they THINK socialism works in other countries, and then say, “Oh, see? This is how the USA should go. What are Austrian economists thinking?”It’s just cheap blogging with no real research or first-hand experience involved. It’s just silly.
No country that is still reliant on UN aid money can credibly claim to be the future of the world economy.And that’s about enough of that.
right on Ryan. i was in China for a month right after the SARS outbreak and i was stunned by the contrasts. i was in a 5 star hotel and 2 blocks away were people living on top of each other in squallor. i was also amazed at the number of building projects in the large metro centers. new but shabbily built high rise buildings on each corner. most of these were empty and were built for futture growth. i still have a friend and former co-worker there and he says many of these buildings are still empty and new construction continues. sounds like a misallocation of resources to me.
The Maglev train ride from downtown Shanghai to the airport is a perfect microcosm of China. State of the art, expensive, beautiful, fascinating technology – riding past shantytowns full of people who’s livelihood was stolen from them in order to fund it.
Exactly. This guy Baker is just an updated version of the useful idiots who used to
extol the virtues of the Soviet Union in the 30′s. He’s just seeing what he wants to see.
Amusing, but sad.
Question: Who are these people who wish to be “managed?”
Likely answer is that they do not want to be managed, but do the managing. They’re the first ones to be purged.
It disturbs me especially to see so many self-styled economic experts recently favorably referencing the AMI-essentially a group of vulgar monetarists whose intellectual hobby horse is a 100% fiat currency (ignoring the rather rapid breakdown of previous similar currencies). Their magic solution to the current economic situation is to raise reserve ratios to 100%, but to replace all the bank-created money with money printed by the government and spent into circulation. They either ignore the fact that as such it still represents a transfer of wealth from private citizens to the government or they claim-hilariously-that it’s more efficiently spent by the government than by private citizens. They also honestly believe that, once it’s completely unrestrained from printing its own budget, the government will exercise the power responsibly.
If they are so great at planning, then why did they build a city that scarcely anyone lives in?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h7V3Twb-Qk
FAIL
This guy does know China is currently a bubble, right?
To my knowledge the Chinese have largely copied the managed economic principles of the US and Europe. It’s all there. . . Subsidies, managed fiat currency, individual nationalized companies, bailouts, and “stimulus.”
The US economy might be more free than China’s and many other countries, but to say that the US is not a managed economy is to disregard reality.
Just another person talking past Austrian Economics. Tsk, tsk.
The empty Chinese city of Ordos is amazing. It looks a lot like Florida, or Las Vegas.
I wonder if some of the same people who designed and built the urban wastelands in places like Vegas, Orlando and Palm Beach County consulted with the Chinese who built Ordos.
I also expect that, for a lot of the same reasons, Ordos will have many of the same economic features — massive real estate losses, bankruptcies and other dislocations, as soon as the bubble pops.
China and India are both in massive bubbles. Sadly I don’t think they will crash any time soon, esp if US economy recovers, and US business continues to go to China/India. But next time when US economy crashes, they will come crashing down face first.
Although I will write down an ‘I told you so’ article’ for that guy.
Quoth Scott Baker:
“America flourished during the age of tarrifs in the 1800s, so I really have no problem with having new tarrifs.”
LOL. I can be an OpEdNews blogger too. Here’s my audition:
“America flourished without weather forecasting in the 1800s, so I really have no problem with abolishing hurricane warnings.”
If that doesn’t do it for you, try substituting “America flourished during the era of Jim Crow laws”, “smallpox epidemics”, or “muddy roads”.
“One time I killed 20 people and stole/sold all of their worldly possessions for crack money, and not only did society not crumble around me, but I was friggin rich! I propose the State sanctions the murder and looting of every individual. It’ll solve all our problems!”
Italy flourished during the Renaissance without science, so I have no real problem with abolishing science.
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