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	<title>Comments on: Zoning Laws Destroy Communities</title>
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	<description>Proceeding Ever More Boldly Against Evil</description>
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		<title>By: Larry Toombs</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12598/zoning-laws-destroy-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-719537</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Toombs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 21:50:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=12598#comment-719537</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have found the reponses to this article to be in some ways educational and entertaining. As a realtor in the Houston real estate market I have always been adverse to the lack of zoning in the outlying areas and in parts of the city itself. Especially as I have seen very nice homes built on unrestricted lots and then shacks or mobile homes put on the lot next door which in my opinion devalue the nicer home. Don&#039;t take me wrong mobile homes etc. have a right to be there but again I have seen it bring down the value of some very nice Houston homes. 
One of the comments I found interesting was about Houston and how the strip malls etc. are so well integrated into the area. Most people don&#039;t realize that&#039;s only because a big corporation or business has come in and bought or already owned the land and have basically created their own zoning by creating residential and commercial zones. They also can be very restrictive as to what is built there,how it is built and how it looks. Has nothing to do with government but highest and best use of the property they developed i.e. planned community and their pocket book as they are creating the highly desired commercial property.
After reading all the responses and arguments I have seen, I have had to rethink my position as to requiring zoning. I still think it has it&#039;s place in certain areas but have now opened my eyes and realized it&#039;s not for every area.
Thanks to all for the entertaining and educational debate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have found the reponses to this article to be in some ways educational and entertaining. As a realtor in the Houston real estate market I have always been adverse to the lack of zoning in the outlying areas and in parts of the city itself. Especially as I have seen very nice homes built on unrestricted lots and then shacks or mobile homes put on the lot next door which in my opinion devalue the nicer home. Don&#8217;t take me wrong mobile homes etc. have a right to be there but again I have seen it bring down the value of some very nice Houston homes.<br />
One of the comments I found interesting was about Houston and how the strip malls etc. are so well integrated into the area. Most people don&#8217;t realize that&#8217;s only because a big corporation or business has come in and bought or already owned the land and have basically created their own zoning by creating residential and commercial zones. They also can be very restrictive as to what is built there,how it is built and how it looks. Has nothing to do with government but highest and best use of the property they developed i.e. planned community and their pocket book as they are creating the highly desired commercial property.<br />
After reading all the responses and arguments I have seen, I have had to rethink my position as to requiring zoning. I still think it has it&#8217;s place in certain areas but have now opened my eyes and realized it&#8217;s not for every area.<br />
Thanks to all for the entertaining and educational debate.</p>
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		<title>By: Jenn</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12598/zoning-laws-destroy-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-711794</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Aug 2010 17:32:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=12598#comment-711794</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is a prime example of the tension between living in community and preserving individual freedoms.  No easy answers and sometimes frequent compromise.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a prime example of the tension between living in community and preserving individual freedoms.  No easy answers and sometimes frequent compromise.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom the Land Man</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12598/zoning-laws-destroy-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-704755</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom the Land Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 19:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=12598#comment-704755</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[zoning laws do a lot to limit a community&#039;s ability to adapt to growth patterns epically rapid growth like in Las Vegas, Nv  Steve Wynn has the right ideals and goal  He says bigger is not better
Steve Wynn thinks Better is Better]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>zoning laws do a lot to limit a community&#8217;s ability to adapt to growth patterns epically rapid growth like in Las Vegas, Nv  Steve Wynn has the right ideals and goal  He says bigger is not better<br />
Steve Wynn thinks Better is Better</p>
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		<title>By: tungsten watches</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12598/zoning-laws-destroy-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-704222</link>
		<dc:creator>tungsten watches</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=12598#comment-704222</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks to this topic, the feeling of your many view is all right with you, hope to have the time of communication, welcome to visit my blog:http://www.tocoy.net]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to this topic, the feeling of your many view is all right with you, hope to have the time of communication, welcome to visit my blog:<a href="http://www.tocoy.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.tocoy.net</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dave Albin</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12598/zoning-laws-destroy-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-690835</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Albin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 03:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=12598#comment-690835</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Aside from the other good replies - just because you say a 7-11 opening &quot;isn&#039;t an improvement&quot;, others, who shop there and keep it open, disagree.  Are you saying all of those customers are wrong?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aside from the other good replies &#8211; just because you say a 7-11 opening &#8220;isn&#8217;t an improvement&#8221;, others, who shop there and keep it open, disagree.  Are you saying all of those customers are wrong?</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Albin</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12598/zoning-laws-destroy-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-690833</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Albin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 03:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=12598#comment-690833</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t know why the restoring antique vehicles would be any problem to anyone, except maybe noise issues.  Breeding swine would probably come along with vile odors that would waft over to the neighbors, and the explosives - well, I only hope you have some way to prevent them from going off because that would obviously affect other property owners.  The point is all private-property owners can do anything they want until their actions affect other property owners around them, which all of your items could do.  So, you would need to interact with your neighbors (not the government) and come to agreements with all of them.  Why does any of that have to involve the government?  In fact, the government, with its ordinances, could allow swine breeding, for example, and you and the other owners would not be able to stop someone from letting the stink go around the neighborhood.  They could bring in the cops to allow the local swine breeder to go about his business, even though this clearly affects everyone else.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know why the restoring antique vehicles would be any problem to anyone, except maybe noise issues.  Breeding swine would probably come along with vile odors that would waft over to the neighbors, and the explosives &#8211; well, I only hope you have some way to prevent them from going off because that would obviously affect other property owners.  The point is all private-property owners can do anything they want until their actions affect other property owners around them, which all of your items could do.  So, you would need to interact with your neighbors (not the government) and come to agreements with all of them.  Why does any of that have to involve the government?  In fact, the government, with its ordinances, could allow swine breeding, for example, and you and the other owners would not be able to stop someone from letting the stink go around the neighborhood.  They could bring in the cops to allow the local swine breeder to go about his business, even though this clearly affects everyone else.</p>
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		<title>By: Glover</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12598/zoning-laws-destroy-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-690828</link>
		<dc:creator>Glover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 02:47:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=12598#comment-690828</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ok Magnus, suppose I move next door to you.  My hobbies include restoring antique vehicles, breeding swine and experimental development of new types of explosives.  If governmental zoning has no right to tell me what I can do with my land, neither do you.  Hi there, neighbor.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok Magnus, suppose I move next door to you.  My hobbies include restoring antique vehicles, breeding swine and experimental development of new types of explosives.  If governmental zoning has no right to tell me what I can do with my land, neither do you.  Hi there, neighbor.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Carson</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12598/zoning-laws-destroy-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-686909</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Carson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 May 2010 06:36:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=12598#comment-686909</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The cookie example is telling.  The principle it illustrates (reinforced by Michael&#039;s wonderful story) is that overhead cost is like Kryptonite to agility and resilience.  The higher the capital outlay and overhead cost, the larger the revenue stream required to service it.  Conversely, the lower the overhead cost, the less firm the boundary is between being &quot;in business&quot; and &quot;out of business,&quot; and the lower the cost of riding out periods of slow business.  When government regulations mandate artificial levels of capital outlay and overhead, they also in effect mandate large batch production.

Production in the informal and household economy is often virtually free from overhead, because it relies on spare capacity of ordinary household capital goods most people already own anyway.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The cookie example is telling.  The principle it illustrates (reinforced by Michael&#8217;s wonderful story) is that overhead cost is like Kryptonite to agility and resilience.  The higher the capital outlay and overhead cost, the larger the revenue stream required to service it.  Conversely, the lower the overhead cost, the less firm the boundary is between being &#8220;in business&#8221; and &#8220;out of business,&#8221; and the lower the cost of riding out periods of slow business.  When government regulations mandate artificial levels of capital outlay and overhead, they also in effect mandate large batch production.</p>
<p>Production in the informal and household economy is often virtually free from overhead, because it relies on spare capacity of ordinary household capital goods most people already own anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: M1ThinkTank</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12598/zoning-laws-destroy-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-686787</link>
		<dc:creator>M1ThinkTank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 May 2010 15:45:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=12598#comment-686787</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While I&#039;m not in favor of zoning as described in the article, I am in favor of zoning restrictions that place restraints on the types of buildings that can be built in an area.

For instance, when I was in the Houston area, I saw big name stores and restaurants that were able to blend with the nearby neighborhoods. This is because all of the buildings had similar brick exteriors, and all of the signs on the buildings were white. Even the McDonald&#039;s logo on the building was white, and I don&#039;t even recall seeing the &#039;golden arches&#039; or any other big signs in the area.

Long story short, if commercial property had to meet certain aesthetic requirements, then I wouldn&#039;t be as opposed to commercial activity taking place in a residential area. I don&#039;t think anyone would like it if a big red and yellow McDonald&#039;s popped up on their block, but they might not be as opposed if the design of the McDonald&#039;s allowed it to blend with the neighborhood.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I&#8217;m not in favor of zoning as described in the article, I am in favor of zoning restrictions that place restraints on the types of buildings that can be built in an area.</p>
<p>For instance, when I was in the Houston area, I saw big name stores and restaurants that were able to blend with the nearby neighborhoods. This is because all of the buildings had similar brick exteriors, and all of the signs on the buildings were white. Even the McDonald&#8217;s logo on the building was white, and I don&#8217;t even recall seeing the &#8216;golden arches&#8217; or any other big signs in the area.</p>
<p>Long story short, if commercial property had to meet certain aesthetic requirements, then I wouldn&#8217;t be as opposed to commercial activity taking place in a residential area. I don&#8217;t think anyone would like it if a big red and yellow McDonald&#8217;s popped up on their block, but they might not be as opposed if the design of the McDonald&#8217;s allowed it to blend with the neighborhood.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12598/zoning-laws-destroy-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-686773</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 May 2010 14:49:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=12598#comment-686773</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with many anti-zoning sentiments in these comment, in the sense that zoning may be counterproductive in many ways and overall.

However, it has seemed to me that to the extent that whatever rules exist, existed at the time the homeowner purchased the home, then the residents comprise a localized, voluntary association of its &quot;members&quot;, and therefore does not have to me nearly so much of the &quot;statist&quot; baggage and objectional features of, in contrast, the Federal government.  Of course having to obey ordinances/laws that come into being after one moves into the city, is still problematic to this line of though, but a prospective homeowner can at least get an idea as to the nature of likely future restrictions based on previous and current restrictions in place.

I remember as a youth being puzzled by the the term &quot;incorporated city&quot; and eventually came to the view that  &quot;oh, I see, it&#039;s a corporation in many senses just as any other business, but whose product is a place to live, and whose customers are the residents who by moving there choose to contract with that business for the type of living environment that the city provides them&quot;.

Of course other businesses don&#039;t have their own police forces, etc.

So to me in this regard &quot;small government is better&quot; translates to &quot;city government is &#039;less bad&#039; than county government is less bad than state government is less bad than county government&quot;.  

Cheers,
John]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with many anti-zoning sentiments in these comment, in the sense that zoning may be counterproductive in many ways and overall.</p>
<p>However, it has seemed to me that to the extent that whatever rules exist, existed at the time the homeowner purchased the home, then the residents comprise a localized, voluntary association of its &#8220;members&#8221;, and therefore does not have to me nearly so much of the &#8220;statist&#8221; baggage and objectional features of, in contrast, the Federal government.  Of course having to obey ordinances/laws that come into being after one moves into the city, is still problematic to this line of though, but a prospective homeowner can at least get an idea as to the nature of likely future restrictions based on previous and current restrictions in place.</p>
<p>I remember as a youth being puzzled by the the term &#8220;incorporated city&#8221; and eventually came to the view that  &#8220;oh, I see, it&#8217;s a corporation in many senses just as any other business, but whose product is a place to live, and whose customers are the residents who by moving there choose to contract with that business for the type of living environment that the city provides them&#8221;.</p>
<p>Of course other businesses don&#8217;t have their own police forces, etc.</p>
<p>So to me in this regard &#8220;small government is better&#8221; translates to &#8220;city government is &#8216;less bad&#8217; than county government is less bad than state government is less bad than county government&#8221;.  </p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
John</p>
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		<title>By: Becky</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12598/zoning-laws-destroy-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-686765</link>
		<dc:creator>Becky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 May 2010 13:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=12598#comment-686765</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From what I have seen working in the construction field,  zoning does more wrong than right. Yes, people don&#039;t want an obnoxious neighbor next door, but I have more often seen the obnoxious neighbor as the residential one and not the industrial one.  For example, in the rural areas of northern Michigan, it is not uncommon for people (especially union types) to retire up north and become whiners about the farm next door.  The fact that the farm next door has been there for years is not the issue for them.  They get on local government boards and bring the city regulations with them. You cannot build a pole barn on your property (even a 40 acre parcel) if your cabin is not as large or larger.  You may start a business one day, and they don&#039;t want that in an area outside the master plan.  Although, you would have to go through another bureaucracy to get permission anyway.

In established areas, there are massive parking lots with x amount of spaces for x amount of s.f. and expected traffic.  What some communities are now starting to address is the over paving has created a lot of hard surfaces which leads to water control issues and that the parking lots are never close to being full except at Christmas.  Now the new thing is shared parking areas.

In zoning laws and covenants, you now cannot &quot;live above the shop&quot; which discourages small businesses because it is cheaper to live either upstairs or next to your business as part of the same property.

From what I have seen and know, there are planning consultants who work with a lot of incorporated villages, cities and towns and many of these have basically the same zoning rules (same consultants). If you want to start a business you may have to landscape (including what you can and cannot have, like a tree every 20&#039;, have signs approved, colors approved, fences repaired at the discretion of the local burueacrat.  If your trees and landscaping create a problem (the stuff the govt decided you needed), you are then cited to fix them. I do know one of these planners personally, and really like him, but when it came to his own house, he was upset at having to do things the code required. 

Zoning does do one thing for all, it does increase the costs of building and doing business. It takes more money to hang out your shingle today.   On top of zoning there are also subdivision covenents with square foot, roof pitch, exterior materials, etc. all subject to the builder&#039;s approval.

I personally think zoning performs two things in reality: discriminates (it was rumored that one area of Mi had extremely tight zoning laws to prevent riff raff from moving in), creates more sprawl.  Those highly regulated zoned communities have lots and lots of fights.  Especially in the more well to do ones. They argue, sue, threaten to sue over wrong exterior, putting up a shed, having a boat outside, etc. many times over (because I&#039;ve sat in meetings and listened to the bickering) than my non planned rural street.

Zoning is another layer of government to try to control behavior, not a system of managing land. As someone who has worked with zoning and zoning officials, overall, I am not impressed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From what I have seen working in the construction field,  zoning does more wrong than right. Yes, people don&#8217;t want an obnoxious neighbor next door, but I have more often seen the obnoxious neighbor as the residential one and not the industrial one.  For example, in the rural areas of northern Michigan, it is not uncommon for people (especially union types) to retire up north and become whiners about the farm next door.  The fact that the farm next door has been there for years is not the issue for them.  They get on local government boards and bring the city regulations with them. You cannot build a pole barn on your property (even a 40 acre parcel) if your cabin is not as large or larger.  You may start a business one day, and they don&#8217;t want that in an area outside the master plan.  Although, you would have to go through another bureaucracy to get permission anyway.</p>
<p>In established areas, there are massive parking lots with x amount of spaces for x amount of s.f. and expected traffic.  What some communities are now starting to address is the over paving has created a lot of hard surfaces which leads to water control issues and that the parking lots are never close to being full except at Christmas.  Now the new thing is shared parking areas.</p>
<p>In zoning laws and covenants, you now cannot &#8220;live above the shop&#8221; which discourages small businesses because it is cheaper to live either upstairs or next to your business as part of the same property.</p>
<p>From what I have seen and know, there are planning consultants who work with a lot of incorporated villages, cities and towns and many of these have basically the same zoning rules (same consultants). If you want to start a business you may have to landscape (including what you can and cannot have, like a tree every 20&#8242;, have signs approved, colors approved, fences repaired at the discretion of the local burueacrat.  If your trees and landscaping create a problem (the stuff the govt decided you needed), you are then cited to fix them. I do know one of these planners personally, and really like him, but when it came to his own house, he was upset at having to do things the code required. </p>
<p>Zoning does do one thing for all, it does increase the costs of building and doing business. It takes more money to hang out your shingle today.   On top of zoning there are also subdivision covenents with square foot, roof pitch, exterior materials, etc. all subject to the builder&#8217;s approval.</p>
<p>I personally think zoning performs two things in reality: discriminates (it was rumored that one area of Mi had extremely tight zoning laws to prevent riff raff from moving in), creates more sprawl.  Those highly regulated zoned communities have lots and lots of fights.  Especially in the more well to do ones. They argue, sue, threaten to sue over wrong exterior, putting up a shed, having a boat outside, etc. many times over (because I&#8217;ve sat in meetings and listened to the bickering) than my non planned rural street.</p>
<p>Zoning is another layer of government to try to control behavior, not a system of managing land. As someone who has worked with zoning and zoning officials, overall, I am not impressed.</p>
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		<title>By: Franklin</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12598/zoning-laws-destroy-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-686730</link>
		<dc:creator>Franklin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 May 2010 01:12:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=12598#comment-686730</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David C  (as he often doesl) cuts to the chase.
&quot;... credit pumping causes houses to become like savings accounts, and [homeowners] treat their homes like an investment instead of a place to live.&quot;

Indeed.  Zoning&#039;s also been a long-standing middle class subsidy -- a way to keep the poor out of the neighborhood.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David C  (as he often doesl) cuts to the chase.<br />
&#8220;&#8230; credit pumping causes houses to become like savings accounts, and [homeowners] treat their homes like an investment instead of a place to live.&#8221;</p>
<p>Indeed.  Zoning&#8217;s also been a long-standing middle class subsidy &#8212; a way to keep the poor out of the neighborhood.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12598/zoning-laws-destroy-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-686727</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 May 2010 00:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=12598#comment-686727</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you, that&#039;s the best compliment I ever received.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, that&#8217;s the best compliment I ever received.</p>
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		<title>By: Predrag</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12598/zoning-laws-destroy-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-686711</link>
		<dc:creator>Predrag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 May 2010 21:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=12598#comment-686711</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[autism was meant more like a metaphor for people&#039;s inability to notice solutions so they expect the government to find them. it&#039;s a feedback loop.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>autism was meant more like a metaphor for people&#8217;s inability to notice solutions so they expect the government to find them. it&#8217;s a feedback loop.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaycephus</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12598/zoning-laws-destroy-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-686702</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaycephus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 May 2010 19:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=12598#comment-686702</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I didn&#039;t know that about zoning in Houston. I&#039;ve been commuting to Pasadena (Houston suburb) weekly. I know some of the communities around Houston are big on zoning. The Woodlands is bizarre. Driving through that town is like driving through a pine forrest in which you can&#039;t see the town for the trees. You can pass right by a Taco Bell and not even realize it unless you read the text on the city-mandated gray-on-gray ground-level-only sign. Both pine trees and undergrowth are mandated along the roads to the point that you can not make out the existence of most commercial businesses along many of the town&#039;s widest (divided 4-lane) streets.

Other parts of Houston are filled with ship channels, ports, oil and chemical refineries, ship builders, rail yards, and so on. I would say the success of Houston has been enhanced by the freedom from zoning. Few cities in the world have this kind of mix of industrial uses.

It&#039;s certainly assinine to claim that Palm Beach might have to put up with a landfill moving in next to million-dollar mansions. First a depression or sinkhole would have to open up! Don&#039;t you think that might have a negative effect on nearby home-values? The property, now REQUIRING someone to fill it in, would best be served by turning it into a commercial land-fill, so that it could eventually be used as commercial or residential property. Otherwise you have to assume something that could never happen: someone buys $100K/per acre property, possibly levels perfectly good pre-existing buildings, and digs out perfectly buildable property in order to provide a place to &#039;fill&#039;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t know that about zoning in Houston. I&#8217;ve been commuting to Pasadena (Houston suburb) weekly. I know some of the communities around Houston are big on zoning. The Woodlands is bizarre. Driving through that town is like driving through a pine forrest in which you can&#8217;t see the town for the trees. You can pass right by a Taco Bell and not even realize it unless you read the text on the city-mandated gray-on-gray ground-level-only sign. Both pine trees and undergrowth are mandated along the roads to the point that you can not make out the existence of most commercial businesses along many of the town&#8217;s widest (divided 4-lane) streets.</p>
<p>Other parts of Houston are filled with ship channels, ports, oil and chemical refineries, ship builders, rail yards, and so on. I would say the success of Houston has been enhanced by the freedom from zoning. Few cities in the world have this kind of mix of industrial uses.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s certainly assinine to claim that Palm Beach might have to put up with a landfill moving in next to million-dollar mansions. First a depression or sinkhole would have to open up! Don&#8217;t you think that might have a negative effect on nearby home-values? The property, now REQUIRING someone to fill it in, would best be served by turning it into a commercial land-fill, so that it could eventually be used as commercial or residential property. Otherwise you have to assume something that could never happen: someone buys $100K/per acre property, possibly levels perfectly good pre-existing buildings, and digs out perfectly buildable property in order to provide a place to &#8216;fill&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaycephus</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12598/zoning-laws-destroy-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-686698</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaycephus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 May 2010 18:46:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=12598#comment-686698</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow, Greece is in default because they don&#039;t have Walmart, which is because they don&#039;t have zoning laws! Weird. 

How does LACK of zoning laws prevent a Walmart from opening and performing the function you ascribe to it?

And how would a Walmart affect a nation that has created far too many government union jobs that pay far too much for too little productive labor? Even if these workers performed a full 12 months of labor for WHATEVER amount of pay, if they&#039;re not producing any exportable goods or service, then ultimately how are they going to pay for all the German goods they&#039;ve been buying, be they through a Walmart or not??]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, Greece is in default because they don&#8217;t have Walmart, which is because they don&#8217;t have zoning laws! Weird. </p>
<p>How does LACK of zoning laws prevent a Walmart from opening and performing the function you ascribe to it?</p>
<p>And how would a Walmart affect a nation that has created far too many government union jobs that pay far too much for too little productive labor? Even if these workers performed a full 12 months of labor for WHATEVER amount of pay, if they&#8217;re not producing any exportable goods or service, then ultimately how are they going to pay for all the German goods they&#8217;ve been buying, be they through a Walmart or not??</p>
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		<title>By: Jaycephus</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12598/zoning-laws-destroy-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-686696</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaycephus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 May 2010 18:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=12598#comment-686696</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You still failed to explain the &#039;centripetal/centrifugal&#039; comment.

But you go on to make a crazy statement like: &#039;there is rarely anything detrimental about zoning laws.&#039; 

Just maybe, assuming you ignore all the &#039;unseen consequences&#039;.  

And of course, completely ignore the traffic congestion issue by merely proclaiming it &#039;laughable&#039;. 

And also ignore the concept of private property rights entirely.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You still failed to explain the &#8216;centripetal/centrifugal&#8217; comment.</p>
<p>But you go on to make a crazy statement like: &#8216;there is rarely anything detrimental about zoning laws.&#8217; </p>
<p>Just maybe, assuming you ignore all the &#8216;unseen consequences&#8217;.  </p>
<p>And of course, completely ignore the traffic congestion issue by merely proclaiming it &#8216;laughable&#8217;. </p>
<p>And also ignore the concept of private property rights entirely.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaycephus</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12598/zoning-laws-destroy-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-686694</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaycephus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 May 2010 18:12:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=12598#comment-686694</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Isn&#039;t it more accurate to say zoning has killed Mom &amp; Pop shops, and prevented new ones from opening, THEREFORE there are very few of them anymore?  If I have to drive five miles over to the closest commercial zone, I&#039;m probably going to go to the Walmart Supercenter, which is one of the points of the article. Right now, you get the chain conveinience store due to the fact that it has the resources and specialized knowledge required to get the zoning variances needed to put one of its stores on a given street corner.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t it more accurate to say zoning has killed Mom &amp; Pop shops, and prevented new ones from opening, THEREFORE there are very few of them anymore?  If I have to drive five miles over to the closest commercial zone, I&#8217;m probably going to go to the Walmart Supercenter, which is one of the points of the article. Right now, you get the chain conveinience store due to the fact that it has the resources and specialized knowledge required to get the zoning variances needed to put one of its stores on a given street corner.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaycephus</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12598/zoning-laws-destroy-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-686691</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaycephus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 May 2010 17:54:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=12598#comment-686691</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wouldn&#039;t the ultimate in &#039;sustainable&#039; community be one in which private property rights were maximized, i.e. complete lack of zoning laws? If the lack of a perceived need were felt, it could be provided with the least opposition.

Counter-arguments welcome...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wouldn&#8217;t the ultimate in &#8216;sustainable&#8217; community be one in which private property rights were maximized, i.e. complete lack of zoning laws? If the lack of a perceived need were felt, it could be provided with the least opposition.</p>
<p>Counter-arguments welcome&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Albin</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/12598/zoning-laws-destroy-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-686685</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Albin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 May 2010 17:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/?p=12598#comment-686685</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Exactly right - zoning laws favor big business, and remove innovation and competition.....and lead to higher prices.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly right &#8211; zoning laws favor big business, and remove innovation and competition&#8230;..and lead to higher prices.</p>
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