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	<title>Comments on: Zimbabwe: ruin to revival</title>
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	<link>http://archive.mises.org/11033/zimbabwe-ruin-to-revival/</link>
	<description>Proceeding Ever More Boldly Against Evil</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 00:55:50 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: K Ackermann</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/11033/zimbabwe-ruin-to-revival/comment-page-1/#comment-627110</link>
		<dc:creator>K Ackermann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 10:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/011033.asp#comment-627110</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is very interesting.

We know how it should work. What we have to do is watch it for for signs of failure, and determine why it is so.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is very interesting.</p>
<p>We know how it should work. What we have to do is watch it for for signs of failure, and determine why it is so.</p>
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		<title>By: Tracy Saboe</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/11033/zimbabwe-ruin-to-revival/comment-page-1/#comment-626876</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy Saboe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/011033.asp#comment-626876</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s amazing.

WOW! 
Maybe I&#039;ll want to move to Zimbabwe in a couple years.

Tracy]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s amazing.</p>
<p>WOW!<br />
Maybe I&#8217;ll want to move to Zimbabwe in a couple years.</p>
<p>Tracy</p>
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		<title>By: T. Ralph Kays</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/11033/zimbabwe-ruin-to-revival/comment-page-1/#comment-626450</link>
		<dc:creator>T. Ralph Kays</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:20:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/011033.asp#comment-626450</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rowdy

The ultimate result of monetary collapse or &quot;default&quot; is necessary before an economy can recover once a government has gone down the path of hyper-inflation. Trying to put off the &quot;default&quot; would only increase the suffering and delay recovery.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rowdy</p>
<p>The ultimate result of monetary collapse or &#8220;default&#8221; is necessary before an economy can recover once a government has gone down the path of hyper-inflation. Trying to put off the &#8220;default&#8221; would only increase the suffering and delay recovery.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: T. Ralph Kays</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/11033/zimbabwe-ruin-to-revival/comment-page-1/#comment-626444</link>
		<dc:creator>T. Ralph Kays</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:02:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/011033.asp#comment-626444</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rowdy

The only savings that are lost are those held in the currency that is debased by the actions of the government. It is not some action of default on the part of individuals that causes this, it is the action of the government issueing the currency. Banks will fail or survive in direct relationship to how much they participated in the debasement of the currency. The suffering (or &quot;worse economic conditions&quot; as you put it) is created by the debasement of the currency, the ultimate defaulting is a result of actions that have already caused the suffering.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rowdy</p>
<p>The only savings that are lost are those held in the currency that is debased by the actions of the government. It is not some action of default on the part of individuals that causes this, it is the action of the government issueing the currency. Banks will fail or survive in direct relationship to how much they participated in the debasement of the currency. The suffering (or &#8220;worse economic conditions&#8221; as you put it) is created by the debasement of the currency, the ultimate defaulting is a result of actions that have already caused the suffering.</p>
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		<title>By: Rowdy</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/11033/zimbabwe-ruin-to-revival/comment-page-1/#comment-626430</link>
		<dc:creator>Rowdy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 15:41:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/011033.asp#comment-626430</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t understand why defaulting is a good thing.

If all debts are wiped, doesn&#039;t that create worse economic conditions?  Wouldn&#039;t all the banks and other lending institutions collapse and all savings are lost?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t understand why defaulting is a good thing.</p>
<p>If all debts are wiped, doesn&#8217;t that create worse economic conditions?  Wouldn&#8217;t all the banks and other lending institutions collapse and all savings are lost?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: cavalier973</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/11033/zimbabwe-ruin-to-revival/comment-page-1/#comment-626302</link>
		<dc:creator>cavalier973</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 06:46:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/011033.asp#comment-626302</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[what? raises some good questions.  My guess is that the Zimbabweans (sp?) use the currency that everyone is conditioned to use--paper money.  By using the dollar (and other competing currencies), they are not quite as dependent on the central bank of the host country as the host&#039;s citizens are.  As I understand it, inflation in the U.S. occurs primarily through accounting entries; the actual printing of money is not the primary means of inflating the currency.  Couple that with the possibility that actual U.S. dollars have hurdles to cross to actually get to Zimbabwe that prevents large influxes, then the dollar may be a very stable form of currency.  Not as stable, surely, as a commodity money, but stable enough for their purposes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what? raises some good questions.  My guess is that the Zimbabweans (sp?) use the currency that everyone is conditioned to use&#8211;paper money.  By using the dollar (and other competing currencies), they are not quite as dependent on the central bank of the host country as the host&#8217;s citizens are.  As I understand it, inflation in the U.S. occurs primarily through accounting entries; the actual printing of money is not the primary means of inflating the currency.  Couple that with the possibility that actual U.S. dollars have hurdles to cross to actually get to Zimbabwe that prevents large influxes, then the dollar may be a very stable form of currency.  Not as stable, surely, as a commodity money, but stable enough for their purposes.</p>
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		<title>By: newson</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/11033/zimbabwe-ruin-to-revival/comment-page-1/#comment-626233</link>
		<dc:creator>newson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 01:39:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/011033.asp#comment-626233</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[the only real assets they&#039;ll risk getting is depleted uranium.  more likely they&#039;ll end up with scrap paper.  

although china&#039;s &quot;temporary&quot; mercantilism has lasted decades, the end-game must surely have started.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the only real assets they&#8217;ll risk getting is depleted uranium.  more likely they&#8217;ll end up with scrap paper.  </p>
<p>although china&#8217;s &#8220;temporary&#8221; mercantilism has lasted decades, the end-game must surely have started.</p>
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		<title>By: What?</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/11033/zimbabwe-ruin-to-revival/comment-page-1/#comment-626195</link>
		<dc:creator>What?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 23:43:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/011033.asp#comment-626195</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It can only be &quot;export-based&quot; temporarily. Eventually they&#039;ll buy real assets with all those promises to pay. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It can only be &#8220;export-based&#8221; temporarily. Eventually they&#8217;ll buy real assets with all those promises to pay. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: newson</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/11033/zimbabwe-ruin-to-revival/comment-page-1/#comment-626124</link>
		<dc:creator>newson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 17:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/011033.asp#comment-626124</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[or &quot;conversion&quot;, as they say in english.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>or &#8220;conversion&#8221;, as they say in english.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: newson</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/11033/zimbabwe-ruin-to-revival/comment-page-1/#comment-626122</link>
		<dc:creator>newson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 17:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/011033.asp#comment-626122</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[to &quot;what?&quot;:
i&#039;m saying is that zimbabwe&#039;s internal market is so small that its trading partners aren&#039;t going to revert to a commodity money even if zimbabwe were to do so (if gold, on the other hand, were used by two trading partners as currency, it would lower transaction costs, and largely eliminate pricing distortions).  zimbabweans reduce convertion losses by dealing directly in their partners&#039; currencies.

i erred in classing zimbabwe as an export-based economy, but export-based economies &lt;b&gt;can&lt;/b&gt; and do exist as you have described. see china versus the us. mercantilism, in other words.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to &#8220;what?&#8221;:<br />
i&#8217;m saying is that zimbabwe&#8217;s internal market is so small that its trading partners aren&#8217;t going to revert to a commodity money even if zimbabwe were to do so (if gold, on the other hand, were used by two trading partners as currency, it would lower transaction costs, and largely eliminate pricing distortions).  zimbabweans reduce convertion losses by dealing directly in their partners&#8217; currencies.</p>
<p>i erred in classing zimbabwe as an export-based economy, but export-based economies <b>can</b> and do exist as you have described. see china versus the us. mercantilism, in other words.</p>
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		<title>By: What?</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/11033/zimbabwe-ruin-to-revival/comment-page-1/#comment-626076</link>
		<dc:creator>What?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 14:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/011033.asp#comment-626076</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Conversely, a &quot;trade deficit&quot; means you are taking in more goods and services and capital than you are shipping out. All you have to do is print worthless paper (or just promise to print worthless paper!). Just make sure it&#039;s even more worthless by the time you do it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Conversely, a &#8220;trade deficit&#8221; means you are taking in more goods and services and capital than you are shipping out. All you have to do is print worthless paper (or just promise to print worthless paper!). Just make sure it&#8217;s even more worthless by the time you do it.</p>
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		<title>By: What?</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/11033/zimbabwe-ruin-to-revival/comment-page-1/#comment-626074</link>
		<dc:creator>What?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 14:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/011033.asp#comment-626074</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;that wouldn&#039;t make a lot of sense for an export-based economy. all zimbabwe&#039;s trading partners use fiat currencies.&quot;

There is no such thing as an &quot;export-based economy&quot;. And if there was, that would be the stupidest kind of economy. That means you are shipping out more goods and services than you are taking in, and getting worthless paper in return. Eventually that paper must be sent back, otherwise you have permanently lost the value of those goods and services. Anybody can print worthless paper.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;that wouldn&#8217;t make a lot of sense for an export-based economy. all zimbabwe&#8217;s trading partners use fiat currencies.&#8221;</p>
<p>There is no such thing as an &#8220;export-based economy&#8221;. And if there was, that would be the stupidest kind of economy. That means you are shipping out more goods and services than you are taking in, and getting worthless paper in return. Eventually that paper must be sent back, otherwise you have permanently lost the value of those goods and services. Anybody can print worthless paper.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: newson</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/11033/zimbabwe-ruin-to-revival/comment-page-1/#comment-626045</link>
		<dc:creator>newson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/011033.asp#comment-626045</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;what?&quot; says:
&lt;b&gt;&quot;That&#039;s funny. They can use whatever they want as money, but they choose foreign fiat money? They don&#039;t use gold or silver?&quot;

that wouldn&#039;t make a lot of sense for an export-based economy. all zimbabwe&#039;s trading partners use fiat currencies.

as witoslawski says, the important point is that the money-creation function has been depoliticized.  it can still occur through the domestic banks, but they are highly exposed to risk without a central bank.

the interesting thing about this article is that the banks seem to have done it fairly tough.  this is what happens when the inflation is literally through printing money, as opposed to originating it through the banking system.  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;what?&#8221; says:<br />
<b>&#8220;That&#8217;s funny. They can use whatever they want as money, but they choose foreign fiat money? They don&#8217;t use gold or silver?&#8221;</p>
<p>that wouldn&#8217;t make a lot of sense for an export-based economy. all zimbabwe&#8217;s trading partners use fiat currencies.</p>
<p>as witoslawski says, the important point is that the money-creation function has been depoliticized.  it can still occur through the domestic banks, but they are highly exposed to risk without a central bank.</p>
<p>the interesting thing about this article is that the banks seem to have done it fairly tough.  this is what happens when the inflation is literally through printing money, as opposed to originating it through the banking system.  </b></p>
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		<title>By: haymor</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/11033/zimbabwe-ruin-to-revival/comment-page-1/#comment-626012</link>
		<dc:creator>haymor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 09:51:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/011033.asp#comment-626012</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The conference of Jeffrey Tucker at Salamanca is already available at juandemariana.org

http://juandemariana.org/video/4194/jeffrey/tucker/technology/economic/education/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The conference of Jeffrey Tucker at Salamanca is already available at juandemariana.org</p>
<p><a href="http://juandemariana.org/video/4194/jeffrey/tucker/technology/economic/education/" rel="nofollow">http://juandemariana.org/video/4194/jeffrey/tucker/technology/economic/education/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Koerber</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/11033/zimbabwe-ruin-to-revival/comment-page-1/#comment-625984</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Koerber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 05:47:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/011033.asp#comment-625984</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Zimbabwe Economy Gets Some Relief. 

In the heart of southern Africa there is new flow of blood since the clot has moved on. Before the complete and total destruction of the Zimbabwe unit of fiat currency the tissues were dying from the lack of nutrients and oxygen. It is good news to see a localized reinvigoration but what has happened to the clot?

Inviolable property rights is the cure but where in Africa does that exist?

Nevertheless a return to relative health does bring some relief. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zimbabwe Economy Gets Some Relief. </p>
<p>In the heart of southern Africa there is new flow of blood since the clot has moved on. Before the complete and total destruction of the Zimbabwe unit of fiat currency the tissues were dying from the lack of nutrients and oxygen. It is good news to see a localized reinvigoration but what has happened to the clot?</p>
<p>Inviolable property rights is the cure but where in Africa does that exist?</p>
<p>Nevertheless a return to relative health does bring some relief. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: What?</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/11033/zimbabwe-ruin-to-revival/comment-page-1/#comment-625961</link>
		<dc:creator>What?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 03:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/011033.asp#comment-625961</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s funny. They can use whatever they want as money, but they choose foreign fiat money? They don&#039;t use gold or silver?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s funny. They can use whatever they want as money, but they choose foreign fiat money? They don&#8217;t use gold or silver?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: AJ Witoslawski</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/11033/zimbabwe-ruin-to-revival/comment-page-1/#comment-625959</link>
		<dc:creator>AJ Witoslawski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 03:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/011033.asp#comment-625959</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;What? Now they use the US dollar and other fiat currencies. So they are still dependent on central banking.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The key here is that Zimbabwe doesn&#039;t have a functioning central bank of its own, so Zimbabwean politicians can&#039;t just create inflation. Also important is that there is competition between the USD, the EUR, and the ZAR. All three of these currencies are considered strong currencies (at least for the time being).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>What? Now they use the US dollar and other fiat currencies. So they are still dependent on central banking.</p></blockquote>
<p>The key here is that Zimbabwe doesn&#8217;t have a functioning central bank of its own, so Zimbabwean politicians can&#8217;t just create inflation. Also important is that there is competition between the USD, the EUR, and the ZAR. All three of these currencies are considered strong currencies (at least for the time being).</p>
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		<title>By: fundamentalist</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/11033/zimbabwe-ruin-to-revival/comment-page-1/#comment-625954</link>
		<dc:creator>fundamentalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 02:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/011033.asp#comment-625954</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What happened in Zimbabwe is very similar to Germany&#039;s experience in the 1920&#039;s. Check out Constantino Bresciani-Turroni&#039;s book in the literature section of this web site. Popular history says that the price inflation ended when the guv introduced the new Mark, but that is wrong. Price inflation stopped because Germans quit using the old Mark. The old Mark was so worthless that people simply stopped using it for anything but fire starter and used foreign currency or barter instead. The new Mark came later.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What happened in Zimbabwe is very similar to Germany&#8217;s experience in the 1920&#8242;s. Check out Constantino Bresciani-Turroni&#8217;s book in the literature section of this web site. Popular history says that the price inflation ended when the guv introduced the new Mark, but that is wrong. Price inflation stopped because Germans quit using the old Mark. The old Mark was so worthless that people simply stopped using it for anything but fire starter and used foreign currency or barter instead. The new Mark came later.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: newson</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/11033/zimbabwe-ruin-to-revival/comment-page-1/#comment-625837</link>
		<dc:creator>newson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:50:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/011033.asp#comment-625837</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[caley mckibben says:
&lt;B&gt;&quot;I can&#039;t understand why these crooks would abolish the central bank and recognize the USD.&quot;

they haven&#039;t.  the article says the usd has become the &lt;I&gt;de facto&lt;/i&gt; currency, with others accepted.  that is, the government has got out the money production game, but not formalized any alternative monetary regime. i wonder how much time will pass before this happens.  it&#039;s hard to imagine politicians standing idly by as laissez-faire does its work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>caley mckibben says:<br />
<b>&#8220;I can&#8217;t understand why these crooks would abolish the central bank and recognize the USD.&#8221;</p>
<p>they haven&#8217;t.  the article says the usd has become the <i>de facto</i> currency, with others accepted.  that is, the government has got out the money production game, but not formalized any alternative monetary regime. i wonder how much time will pass before this happens.  it&#8217;s hard to imagine politicians standing idly by as laissez-faire does its work.</b></p>
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		<title>By: Robby</title>
		<link>http://archive.mises.org/11033/zimbabwe-ruin-to-revival/comment-page-1/#comment-625830</link>
		<dc:creator>Robby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:37:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mises.org/archives/011033.asp#comment-625830</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yancey Ward,

Just asking:
Is it a useful refinement to your statement about transaction costs to say this:  In accounting for non-like-kind, non-Fed-note exchanges for tax purposes, one must convert the value of the good given or service rendered into USD and deduct it, then convert the value of good or service received and count it as income.  Under this, the tax burden is theoretically a wash, but the accounting is a more-than-crushing burden.  Also, the IRS is free to quibble at will without any meaningful restraint with the dollar valuations of the bartered goods.

What I&#039;m after is this:  Is there a tax imposed on the exchange, or is it just prohibitive to effectively and legally avoid the tax?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yancey Ward,</p>
<p>Just asking:<br />
Is it a useful refinement to your statement about transaction costs to say this:  In accounting for non-like-kind, non-Fed-note exchanges for tax purposes, one must convert the value of the good given or service rendered into USD and deduct it, then convert the value of good or service received and count it as income.  Under this, the tax burden is theoretically a wash, but the accounting is a more-than-crushing burden.  Also, the IRS is free to quibble at will without any meaningful restraint with the dollar valuations of the bartered goods.</p>
<p>What I&#8217;m after is this:  Is there a tax imposed on the exchange, or is it just prohibitive to effectively and legally avoid the tax?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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