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Source link: http://archive.mises.org/10887/can-government-fight-epidemics/

Can Government Fight Epidemics?

October 22, 2009 by

The production and distribution of a flu vaccination requires the harmonious cooperation of many different types of entrepreneurs, scientists, laborers, and logistics managers across space and time. This structure of production must be guided by economic calculation. FULL ARTICLE by Eric Staib

{ 20 comments }

Enjoy Every Sandwich October 22, 2009 at 7:59 am

We can only pray that quantity and distribution will be the only problems encountered with the H1N1 vaccine. I am concerned that there is another shoe about to fall–quality.

Baten October 22, 2009 at 9:28 am

I know that this is about the free market and not about vaccines per se, but I have to say this: vaccines do NOT work, they are based on a very outdated model of how the immune system operates, a model so old that was not entirely valid anymore even in the days that the first modern vaccines were made, about 50-60 years ago.

Most vaccines on the market are not creating any antibodies at all, some of them do, for 20-50% of those vaccinated, but only for a limited time, and you have to get a second shot, or even a third or more.

To create antibodies, most vaccines use substances called activators (like squalene or aluminium), which effectively short-circuit the immune sistem to produce a hiper-reaction, that in most people is detrimental for the health (since it boosts all anti-body formation reactions, including for instance auto-immune ones).
Vaccines represent one of the major frauds in the history of mankind, and are responsible for more deaths and suffering than most major disastrous drugs.
Please, if you care for your health, just dont get vaccinated. Dont take my word for it, search out the information. And of course, try to filter out the information that comes from the state, the state agencies, the government etc., and look only at the facts as presented by thousends of honest medical profesionals.

El Tonno October 22, 2009 at 9:45 am

There is a spelling mistake for “Pfizer”

d.tonhofer@m-plify.com October 22, 2009 at 9:47 am

Dear Baten:

“Please, if you care for your health, just dont get vaccinated. ”

This is totally retarded. Enjoy your Hepatitis B and Polio. The proof that vaccines work is _daily_ to be seen.

George October 22, 2009 at 11:06 am

“Please, if you care for your health, just dont get vaccinated. ”

But I don’t want to get tetanus or hepatitis, or polio…

Mr Eko October 22, 2009 at 12:36 pm

Baten,

Agree. This is probably a blessing that the government has bungled this. Pregnant women and children are the last people who should be getting these shots!

greg October 22, 2009 at 4:35 pm

Your odds of death is greater with the old standard flu than with the Swine Flu. Basically, for the vast majority of people that come down with the flu it is totally survivable. Take asprin for fever, drink plenty of fluids and it will pass. Whereas those that contracted polio had very little chance of a recovery, so that vaccine was needed.

The government uses the flu program to show us how much they are in front and helping. Makes us feel all warm and fuzzy. And if it fails, no foul, no harm, it was just a different strain and the death rate is no higher than the past flu seasons. The government is just trying to show us their value so they can pass their healthcare programs.

For me, never had a flu shot, never will. Chicken soup, tea and asprin is all you need. You can have my shot, I am spending $25 on a bottle of Jack.

punter October 22, 2009 at 8:38 pm

I agree Baten. The notion that vaccines got rid of polio, small pox etc is a complete lie. At the same time as we got rid of polio, a brand new disease miraculously cropped up out of nowhere with the exact same symptoms as polio and infected similar numbers of people – we call it viral meningitis and it is remarkably common. The point is we simply renamed polio (other names for it are cerebral palsy, Guillain Barre, West Nile Virus, the list goes on). The point is that there are a lot of paralysis type diseases that occur today which we used to always call polio, but now we simply rediagnose them as something else.

And it is not just polio that was renamed. The same happened with small pox. Chicken pox and shingles deaths were essentially non-existent before the ‘miracle’ small pox vaccine. But afterwards, amazingly, significant numbers of people started dying from chicken pox, shingles, monkey pox etc. (This is why you will be told your kid needs a chicken pox vaccine.)

Pertussis (whooping cough) is now called croup, it is extremely common. Indeed, respiratory problems are endemic for today’s chronically sick children.

Diphtheria is now called (severe) tonsillitis. Again, it is extremely common.

In short, the notion that vaccines eradicated any disease is a complete lie. They were simply relabelled. For those diseases that doctors have yet to find new labels for (such as flu), there are no statistics clearly supporting a reduction in cases despite the prevalence of vaccination.

The amazing thing is though that if you ask the court intellectuals who defend the practice of injecting poisons into babies whether the increase in autism, allergies, asthma, ear infections, SIDS, arthritis, diabetes, gastro problems and the unbelievable level of sickness of today’s children has any relationship with the increase in the numbers of vaccines and vaccinated children, they will dismiss this argument as confusing correlation with causation.

Fair enough. But if correlation doesn’t prove causation, by what right do these guys make the claim that the so-called reduction in polio correlating with the polio vaccine must have been causal in nature?

I will give my own anecdotal evidence – something else the vaccine defenders hate unless they are using it to make their own point- not to prove my point – anybody who looks on wiki for the symptoms of the disease I have just mentioned will see that I have already done that – but to illustrate it. I know around 50 children well. All but two (mine) have been vaccinated along the lines that the government tells them to. All but two (mine) are often sick. And not a single one of the vaccinated is without some sort of chronic condition (ranging from mild to seriously life altering). Around half of them have been to hospital at some stage with a life threatening condition (ie from a disease). Mine on the other hand have never been to a doctor, started sleeping through the night since they were 6 weeks old (and still do). They have never had antibiotics, never even considered the need (not that I believe in that crap anyway). Now I would like to believe that it is all in my superior genes, but, given that both I and their mother were very sickly children that hardly makes sense.

You would think when I tell people this and how for the expenditure of less time, less calories and less money, they too can have healthy, happy and well behaved children they would be more than happy to follow my lead. But of course, to not vaccinate involves independent thought. And this is a price that few people are willing to pay.

Ball October 22, 2009 at 9:35 pm

You’re better off with vitamins B-12, D, and a tincture of osha-usnea than injecting your body with mercury, aluminum, egg proteins, and who knows what else.

Mike October 22, 2009 at 10:40 pm

punter,

Your remarks are interesting. If what you say is true, some testable predictions can be made. For example, “viral meningitis” is then a mutation of poliovirus, one that was unaffected by the vaccine and thus able to proliferate. This means the structure and the genetic code of the virus causing meningitis should be very similar to poliovirus. It would be interesting to see if this is the case.

Another way to evaluate this conclusion is to look at the epidemiology of these new diseases and compare it to that of the old diseases such as polio. Even if viable mutations survive, they might not have the same virulence of the original. Is meningitis as common or as destructive as polio was? Or, put differently, was polio really a huge problem or was it perceived that way because some prominent people (FDR) had it?

This anti-vaccination thing is totally new to me, and I am admittedly skeptical. But the claims you are making seem to be totally testable. Have they been tested?

punter October 22, 2009 at 11:47 pm

Mike,

What you are suggesting seems reasonable except that it is predicated on the idea that viruses cause meningitis (or polio, or anything else for that matter). They don’t. I won’t repeat my arguments but you can read them in the links below (just search for “punter” and see how noone, be they doctors or laypeople, can actually answer any of my questions). The point is that this germ theory of disease is the biggest pile of excrement in the history of humanity.

As for your point about the epidemiology of polio and meningitis. I believe that polio was largely caused (I use that term loosely) by vaccinations. In the 1940s and 50s the demographics of polio was amongst the middle class (and immigrants) but left the poorer communities largely unaffected. Who got vaccines at that time – well without socialised medicine at that time poor people generally didn’t get them.

Of course today virtually all demographics get vaccinated (so the epidemiology would be much harder to discern). And yes, meningitis (be it viral or bacterial (according to the doctors classification) can be extremely destructive. As can Guillain Barre and the others. Of course it would be impossible to directly compare the total numbers of paralytic cases today compared to 60 years ago (remember that most cases of polio induced paralysis were temporary). I could say that it has probably risen, but others would swear that it has fallen. How could anybody know.

We could look at things like child mortality, but even if they had fallen it would be impossible to tell if that was due to vaccines or, for example, improvements in emergency medicine.

That is why the only sensible study is one that compares vaccinated children’s health to unvaccinated children. Strictly speaking it should be randomised and double blind placebo controlled, but realistically it would have to be self-selection based. Nonetheless it would be extremely useful. Of course, doctors, pharma companies and governments do everything in their power to ensure that it will never happen. (I wonder why?) Anyway, one can use common knowledge facts and cold logic to determine that vaccines are completely useless as the links below show:

http://blog.mises.org/archives/009217.asp and
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/09/why_you_should_get_vaccinated_against_th.php

I know, I know, I have too much time (and ego) on my hands – but when you are an anarchist who works for the government I figure it is better I do as little work as possible.

Baten October 23, 2009 at 1:40 am

One other thing people dont realize is that vaccines are NEVER tested, neither for safety nor for efficacity.
The official line is that vaccines have been proven “safe and effective” – but there are absolutley no studies to prove that.
Each year a new flu shot is released on the market. That representes a new medicine, because it has new molecules inside. Is there any testing done regarding it’s safety? NO! Is there any testing done – like a placebo controlled double blind study – to test if it works? NO!
The same holds true about all other vaccines, since the manufacturing process changes all the time, and each year you have “new and better” vaccines, and NONE of them are ever tested, like other drugs are.
So if you want to get vaccinated to protect yourself agains a quantifiable risk of disease, how about all those risks that associated with untested, unproven medicine that you submit yourself to?

@Punter:
I congratulate you for the choice with your children. I had no ideea 7 years ago about this issue – alltough I am a doctor, or maybe it was because I am a doctor – so I had my kid take all the vaccined up until the age of 2. Fortunately for her, she’s OK, in spite of her father lack of insight. But you are right about all the sick kids, as I see them everyday, and I dont seem to remeber when I was a kid, some 40 something years ago, that there were so many sick kids around.

Of course, it’s not only the vaccines. It’s the whole modern medicine that has been confiscated by pharmaceutical corporations, in collusion with the state and the government. Doctors are not doctors anymore, they are simply dispensers of drugs. Illness today is described as a drug defficiency.

Steve October 23, 2009 at 2:45 am

The vaccines are there as this is not a failure of government. It is propaganda.

If the vaccine supply was insufficient, why do they have to fight tooth and nail to force hospital employees to take the poke?

Bogart October 23, 2009 at 7:49 am

Let me state that this centrally planned vaccine contains mercury. I would strongly urge my significant other NOT to take one of these while pregnant.

I read your article and saw in a local news broadcast( I know never ever watch local or national and especially 24hour news) and they were showing PREGNANT WOMEN showing up at the hospital for vaccines only to be turned away.

This is CRAZY. These bozos running the hospital and health departments are creating a panic among pregnant women that is getting them to go to an infection ridden hospital. At the hospital there are other possibly infected pregnant women.

Mike C. October 23, 2009 at 10:00 am

Mike said: “when you are an anarchist who works for the government I figure it is better I do as little work as possible.”

LOL, I second that Mike, please do as little as possible.

Mr Eko October 23, 2009 at 10:29 am

Mike, yes please stay idle for the sake of our well-being.

punter, thanks for your contribution. I have done much research on this topic myself (as every parent should) but have not heard about the old diseases being given new names. I’m not certain I agree with it (pertussis and croup are distinctly different) but I appreciate your attacking this from a different angle. My unvaccinated daughter rarely gets sick, but when she does she recovers incredibly quickly.

Something else to be aware of is that the immunity from a vaccine is not permanent, and for many of the more mild diseases, it is much better to have the disease as a child in order to have a lifelong immunity from it.

JS October 26, 2009 at 3:38 pm

Is this what they teach at the University of Oklahoma? Next time you decide to write about the market, you might want to do a little research first.

“The U.S. has purchased H1N1 vaccines from Sanofi-Aventis SA, Novartis AG, CSL Ltd., GlaxoSmithKline PLC and and MedImmune, which is a unit of AstraZeneca PLC.
….
Novartis, which contracted to make 90 million vaccine doses for the U.S., saw a yield just one-fifth of what was expected after working with the first H1N1 “seed” virus to grow the vaccine. Novartis and other manufacturers are now working with another seed virus that they hope will yield better results.”

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125623425595101755.html

Michael A. Clem October 26, 2009 at 3:59 pm

While I would agree that there are valid concerns about vaccines and vaccination in general, I think some people are giving them too much credit when they attribute these conspiracy theories to government and industry. How could they both bungle the vaccination process AND successfully propagandize vaccines? This is logically inconsistent.

tfr October 28, 2009 at 11:23 am

Hey, you un-vaccinated folks…. did ya ever think that the reason you’re not coming down with anything is because everyone else around you IS vaccinated and incapable of spreading disease to you?

Big_Mike March 7, 2010 at 11:41 pm

The real question is: *Should* the government fight epidemics?

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